Unforgivable Trek errors by writers..
- Thread starter ED-209
- Start date
Riker almost destroyed the D in BoBW with a collision course, although that was probably the right move to be fair.
I like the first two seasons of Enterprise, which are mostly about humans stumbling out into the universe completely unprepared.
Contrast with "Observer effect"
In TNG's "Justice", I couldn't help but wonder if the writers had a death wish for Wesley.
When the Edos made their case against Wesley, the points that they made against Wesley were devastating. The Edos made extremely strong arguments about upholding the rule of law and of their right to protect their sovereignty and culture.
In contrast, the defense that Picard gave was relatively weak and self serving. I thought that the arguments that the Edos made were overwhelmingly more convincing than what Picard had to say.
Even Picard admitted that he was violating the Prime Directive by interfering in the Edo's culture. But he did so anyway. Picard and Crusher were the ones undermining the rule of law, and doing so blatantly, not to mention undercutting the Edo's culture.
If you hated Wesley then, there was no reason to feel any differently afterward, imo. This would have been the perfect opportunity for the writers to write off the boy, as harsh as it might have been.
(Then again, it was lethal injection, a painless way to go, I suppose.)
After watching the episode, I felt that justice wasn't served. Wesley and Picard got off without paying any consequence. If the writers wanted the viewer to feel sympathy for Wesley or Picard at the end, they failed miserably, at least as far as I'm concerned. How Picard "resolved" the matter tainted him in a negative way forever, in my mind. This episode shaped my opinion of Picard going forward.
For an episode with half naked women in it, it ironically left a bitter taste.
When the Edos made their case against Wesley, the points that they made against Wesley were devastating. The Edos made extremely strong arguments about upholding the rule of law and of their right to protect their sovereignty and culture.
In contrast, the defense that Picard gave was relatively weak and self serving. I thought that the arguments that the Edos made were overwhelmingly more convincing than what Picard had to say.
Even Picard admitted that he was violating the Prime Directive by interfering in the Edo's culture. But he did so anyway. Picard and Crusher were the ones undermining the rule of law, and doing so blatantly, not to mention undercutting the Edo's culture.
If you hated Wesley then, there was no reason to feel any differently afterward, imo. This would have been the perfect opportunity for the writers to write off the boy, as harsh as it might have been.
(Then again, it was lethal injection, a painless way to go, I suppose.)After watching the episode, I felt that justice wasn't served. Wesley and Picard got off without paying any consequence. If the writers wanted the viewer to feel sympathy for Wesley or Picard at the end, they failed miserably, at least as far as I'm concerned. How Picard "resolved" the matter tainted him in a negative way forever, in my mind. This episode shaped my opinion of Picard going forward.
For an episode with half naked women in it, it ironically left a bitter taste.
Except, after the Enterprise was gone the Edo culture was intact and unchanged. If the experience with Picard and Wesley lead the Edosions to change their justice system, that would be their choice, and not something Picard forced upon them.
A lumbering whale (admittedly armed) explorer ship destroyed by a highly malnuverable dedicated warship, yeah how did that happen?
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pseudoscience.
The Valakians were meant to go extinct so they shouldn't interfere in the development of the species.
You could say the same thing about a huge asteroid heading towards earth or Phlox's home planet. Or a terminal contagious disease without a cure.
If those scenarios were to happen to Archer's or Plox's culture they would immediately try to stop the steroid or cure the disease.
It seems hypocritical.
In TNG's "Justice", I couldn't help but wonder if the writers had a death wish for Wesley.
When the Edos made their case against Wesley, the points that they made against Wesley were devastating. The Edos made extremely strong arguments about upholding the rule of law and of their right to protect their sovereignty and culture.
In contrast, the defense that Picard gave was relatively weak and self serving. I thought that the arguments that the Edos made were overwhelmingly more convincing than what Picard had to say.
Even Picard admitted that he was violating the Prime Directive by interfering in the Edo's culture. But he did so anyway. Picard and Crusher were the ones undermining the rule of law, and doing so blatantly, not to mention undercutting the Edo's culture.
If you hated Wesley then, there was no reason to feel any differently afterward, imo. This would have been the perfect opportunity for the writers to write off the boy, as harsh as it might have been.
After watching the episode, I felt that justice wasn't served. Wesley and Picard got off without paying any consequence. If the writers wanted the viewer to feel sympathy for Wesley or Picard at the end, they failed miserably, at least as far as I'm concerned. How Picard "resolved" the matter tainted him in a negative way forever, in my mind. This episode shaped my opinion of Picard going forward.
For an episode with half naked women in it, it ironically left a bitter taste.
Justice may be one of the worst episodes of the first season. It only has one redeeming part.
"Nice planet."
Regarding Justice, I think the problem is how god damned stupid a law like that is to begin with and how not believable it is for it to effectively end crime.
It’s a clear cut case of basic right and wrong being a higher moral imperative than following the law. Similar to protecting people in your attic during the holocaust.
I don’t see any moral quandary in Dear Doctor either. Judging your current actions against all possible butterfly effect long term consequences is absurd. They applied contrived shallow sophistry to justify allowing a mass extinction.
It’s a clear cut case of basic right and wrong being a higher moral imperative than following the law. Similar to protecting people in your attic during the holocaust.
I don’t see any moral quandary in Dear Doctor either. Judging your current actions against all possible butterfly effect long term consequences is absurd. They applied contrived shallow sophistry to justify allowing a mass extinction.
To be fair, since we never see the Edo again, we have no idea how that incident affected their society.
THe simple fact is, the Edoans had no right to execute Wesley, since he was an alien. They have no jurisdiction over him.
Picard, OTOH, was well within his rights to intervene and save Wesley's life, because a ship's captain is responsible for the lives of everyone on board the ship. Wes may not have been a member of the crew - at least not at that time - but Picard still had the right (and indeed, the responsibility) to do whatever it takes to save his life.
Now we have things like Game of Thrones on mainstream TV, I feel like Picard should revisit it, repeatably, to ensure we see the planet and its culture from all angles
That could a good premise for a series.
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A modern state of the art flagship of a thousand of its service's elite versus a twenty-year retired ship crewed by a couple dozen rebels cut off from their government and its military. Even the Duras sisters believed in a fair fight they'd be no match for the Enterprise, which they even said when Soran first commanded them to destroy it.
Actually, the mistake there was in the casting. While it still wouldn't be that good an episode, had the guest characters been predominantly white, or lizard-men as they were intended to be in the original script that episode would not have been as racist as it ended up being. Even Tracy Torme, when asked about it said "all I'm saying is that episode did not turn out exactly as I intended."
Wesley and the landing party were physically within the jurisdiction of the Edo, so the Edos had jurisdiction over them while they were physically on the planet.
Wesley broke their law, and the Edos were merely following their law. The Edos had every right to enforce their laws against Wesley, the law breaker. One of the points that the Edos made was that ignorance of the law was not an excuse. Tough luck, Wesley. That's the risk Starfleet personnel take when they go to an alien planet.
And what about the sacred Prime Directive? I didn't make up the rules. The Prime Directive is a rule Starfleet created and imposed on themselves. Either it means what it means; or if it is to be ignored whenever it is not convenient, then it is meaningless and it becomes a joke.
Whether or not the death penalty seemed outrageous, for the crime that Wesley committed, is almost besides the point. Picard took an oath to follow the Prime Directive. Then follow it. According to the PD, Picard should not have interfered in the Edo's cultural ways. Picard even admitted that he would be violating the PD if he saved Wesley. Who exactly had the moral high ground?
At the end, Picard made the argument, or really he lectured the Edos that the Edos had an obligation to make an exception to their rule. What BS, imho. Picard tried to present himself as the principled one when he was the one violating principles. That was one of the things that disgusted me.
I was surprised that the writers wrote this story the way that they did.
The Edos pleaded with Picard to not jail break Wesley. They acknowledged that Picard and Starfleet had the power to snatch away Wesley from their justice. They acknowledged that they were the weaker party, not in the moral sense, but in the power sense.
They basically told Picard not to use the "might is right" approach. They begged Picard not to flout their laws because it would threaten everything they respected.