Unpopular Trek opinions game

[Armus]

unpopular Opinion: I used to like TWOK but after several viewings, I find it practically unwatchable. Khan who's said to be a genius falls for the stupidest of tricks. If the planet has only ONE remaining form of indigenous life then what the hell have they been eating for years? The genesis thing makes no sense whatsoever. We know that lifeless planets are way more numerous than planets with life on it! They should have seen that the stellar system was missing a planet! etc...

Don't be such a logic Nazi!

TWOK is a great movie but when I rewatch it I'm disappointed by 3 things. One, after Ceti Alpha it's primarily just a cat and mouse duel between The Enterprise and The Reliant, and thus it takes place primarily on the bridge of each ship, with a brief intermission on the Regula 1 planet and space station. I wish there more locations and a little more scope. Heck if Paramount wasn't so cheap they atleast could have filmed on location for the Genesis cave.

Two, I never felt Nicholas Meyer did the Enterprise bridge justice. The angles he chose made it looked cramped, while Robert Wise found much better angles. I didn't like the darker paint job either.

Three, Spock's death is well done but he comes back and we know he comes back so it just doesn't move me much anymore.

 

[Prax]

So TWOK is like a bottle episode

 

[Armus]

So TWOK is like a bottle episode

It is. After Ceti Alpha its basically Balance of Terror. Paramount was pinching pennies after TMP.

 

[Phoenix219]

It is. After Ceti Alpha its basically Balance of Terror. Paramount was pinching pennies after TMP.

The Changeling, Balance of Terror.... any other good comparisons for the Trek movies?

 

[Ghrakh]

Good story telling is more important than canon..

Ignoring canon doesn't automatically make a good story.

 

[Discofan]

So TWOK is like a bottle episode

I never thought of that but it's true. Most of the action happens on the bridges of both ships.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

So TWOK is like a bottle episode

Except for those pesky parts where they go off the ship.

 

[Discofan]

Except for those pesky parts where they go off the ship.

Few and far between.

 

[STR]

unpopular Opinion: I used to like TWOK but after several viewings, I find it practically unwatchable. Khan who's said to be a genius falls for the stupidest of tricks. If the planet has only ONE remaining form of indigenous life then what the hell have they been eating for years? The genesis thing makes no sense whatsoever. We know that lifeless planets are way more numerous than planets with life on it! They should have seen that the stellar system was missing a planet! etc...

Only thing I disagree with is that Khan may well have been eating non-indigenous foodstuffs that he brought with him from Enterprise. Other than that, yeah...that's just the beginning of the plot holes.

 

[Discofan]

Only thing I disagree with is that Khan may well have been eating non-indigenous foodstuffs that he brought with him from Enterprise.

For 15 years!!!!

 

[STR]

For 15 years!!!!

Hydroponics? It's not like their equipment and rations loadout was explicitly defined. Whatever it was, it wasn't native.

 

[Discofan]

Hydroponics? It's not like their equipment and rations loadout was explicitly defined. Whatever it was, it wasn't native.

Yes, I can't imagine anything growing on this hellish planet.

It's funny BTW that no one, as far as I know, ever noticed the strange inability of the Ship's sensors to detect humanoid life on the planet. They never say anything to explain that. I mean they scanned the planet for signs of life and they weren't even sure that life was there!!!

 

[Armus]

Except for those pesky parts where they go off the ship.

Kirk's apartment, Ceti Alpha, the Regula One station and cave.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Kirk's apartment, Ceti Alpha, the Regula One station and cave.

Yup. Those places.

Hell, you could even extend it to the Reliant and the Enterprise simulator, since those are redressed sets standing in for different places. So yeah, TWOK was shot on a limited number of sets, many of which were preexisting, but it's a long way from a bottle episode.

 

[Discofan]

Yup. Those places.

Hell, you could even extend it to the Reliant and the Enterprise simulator, since those are redressed sets standing in for different places. So yeah, TWOK was shot on a limited number of sets, many of which were preexisting, but it's a long way from a bottle episode.

I've seen bottle episodes with a larger variety of decors.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I've seen bottle episodes with a larger variety of decors.

Then they probably weren't true bottle episodes. Bottle episodes aren't just stories that take place largely aboard ship. They 're stories that are specifically constructed to use as few sets as possible (usually pre-existing ones) so that they can be produced cheaply and quickly. They shy away from guest stars, too.

TWOK has too many sets, too many other locations, and too many redressed sets to qualify as a true bottle episode, IMO. Hell, TMP spends more time on the ship than TWOK does.

 

[Phoenix219]

Then they probably weren't true bottle episodes. Bottle episodes aren't just stories that take place largely aboard ship. They 're stories that are specifically constructed to use as few sets as possible (usually pre-existing ones) so that they can be produced cheaply and quickly. They shy away from guest stars, too.

TWOK has too many sets, too many other locations, and too many redressed sets to qualify as a true bottle episode, IMO. Hell, TMP spends more time on the ship than TWOK does.

Isn't that exactly why Wrath of Khan got made? They had spent so much money on the sets and models for TMP and wanted to get a better return on their investment. Wasn't that why they gave it to TV people? The whole point was that it was a small budget movie. Its not quite a bottle episode, but I'd say its damn close to the movie equivalent of one, ground breaking CGI at the time not withstanding.

 

[Tenacity]

Khan who's said to be a genius falls for the stupidest of tricks

Spock does say he's intelligent but inexperienced.

For the most part it's Khan who says Khan's a genius.

I never felt Nicholas Meyer did the Enterprise bridge justice. The angles he chose made it looked cramped

it should (imo) look cramp.

Kirk's apartment, Ceti Alpha, the Regula One station and cave.

And
the KM simulator,
the corridor with the guy vacuuming the floor,
the travel pod going to the docked Enterprise.

Others?

 

[Greg Cox]

Only thing I disagree with is that Khan may well have been eating non-indigenous foodstuffs that he brought with him from Enterprise. Other than that, yeah...that's just the beginning of the plot holes.

I'm inclined to think that Khan was just exaggerating a bit and simply meant all animal life, as opposed to vegetation, fungi, etc. Or maybe they were growing their own food from non-indigenous seeds and grains from Earth.

Khan was a dramatic guy who tends to phrase things in florid, declarative terms. He wasn't delivering a scientific report on conditions on the planet; he was about to torture his enemies. It seems reasonable to assume he was indulging in a bit of poetic license there. Khan is not about nuance.

 

[Delta Vega]

Yeah, if Khan worked in the same place as you, he'd be the assembly line / office douche
Done everything, been everywhere