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Why is everyone more robotic than V'Ger in TMP?

H

Hey Missy

Captain
Captain
Now, I love TMP, but I don't understand the cold, emotionless acting from the TOS cast who we're used to seeing hamming it up. You could say they were trying to convey that it's been years since they'd served together, but everyone from Shatner to Nimoy to Kelley and especially Collins are just very stiff and awkward. Was it Robert Wise's directing, or Roddenberry's "New Humans" idea he was obsessed with at the time?
Well, despite a lot of uncomfortable script reading from Nimoy, he still gets two "real"-feeling scenes: the Sickbay "simple feeling", and the infamous tears scene which sadly was cut from the theatrical version.
 
You think the acting sucks because they were trying to portray Rodenberry's new humans? Does evolved humanity equal robotic acting? The acting by Shatner and Nimoy does see more austere than TOS on the whole, and not in a bad way. Spock was more emotionless because that was his arc in the story. Kirk had been a miserable deskbound Admiral for 2 years and Shatner reflected that in his performance. Harlan Ellison went out of his way to praise Nimoy and Deforrest Kelly when he reviewed TMP.

I thought the supporting cast was fine.

Stephen Collins was OK but not particularly memorable.

Persis Khambatta was a little stiff and awkward but she was supposed to be a machine probe.
 
I actually thought Shatner was more like his TOS character in TMP than he was in subsequent movies. He was more dynamic, authoritarian, and serious, than in the later films when he seemed to mellow out as he permed out.
 
The Enterprise crew were not "New Humans." In the TMP novelization, that was a movement on Earth.
Starfleet officers were of hardier, but not quite as mentally "evolved," stock to be included in that.

Kor
 
I've seen it written a lot that the characters in TMP were cold and "off."

I don't see it. Never have.

Kirk is in an awkward spot, and acts that way. It's perfectly natural for his character arc.

Spock is definitely cold. That's part of the plot of the movie and entirely appropriate for his journey.

Everyone else acts exactly as they always have.

:shrug:
 
Look at Robert Wise's earlier SF film, The Andromeda Strain, and you'll get your answer. That had a lot of the same approach, with cool, professional characters in an antiseptic high-tech environment. See also 2001: A Space Odyssey with the actors being cool and understated even in crises, because that's how astronauts and military personnel are trained to act. A lot of late-'60s and '70s science fiction cinema was sedate and cerebral like that. That's why Star Wars was so revolutionary at the time.
 
The scientists in The Andromeda Strain come off as much more animated. They have actual personalities. They display anger, sarcasm, bitterness, fear, excitement, awe. The characters in TMP are flat boards by comparison.
 
Armus said:
I actually thought Shatner was more like his TOS character in TMP than he was in subsequent movies. He was more dynamic, authoritarian, and serious, than in the later films when he seemed to mellow out as he permed out.
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Trek V and Gen he was def portraying Captain Shatner
 
I agree with Christopher, Wise was trying to portray the characters as professional. No snogging while on duty, or playing out family dramas while your colleagues die in a space battle. Now there are some instances where the delivery of a line needed a couple more takes but they were on such a tight schedule, with little time to rehearse, they just went with a delivery that is a bit off.

Some of the lines delivered by the extras were a bit wooden but for the most part I would say that each of the recurring cast needed just one more moment to exhibit the camaraderie of the original series. Other than that, I really like Wise's vision. I find the dynamic in STVI to be hammy, unprofessional, and sliding into self-parody. TMP is far superior IMO.
 
gakelly said:
The movie is tough to even get through. The acting, plot, dialogue, etc....puke.
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Yes please elaborate. I'm not being confrontational here but how old are you? Reason I'm asking is I imagine older trekkers are more of a fan of TMP, myself included.
 
People keep conflating TMP's post-production crunch with principle photography. The latter was not rushed. In fact, it ran waaaay over schedule in part due to the unsettled third act. As I said, a lot of the dialog was looped, and that deadened the performances even above and beyond whatever sort of staid delivery Wise directed the actors to give.
 
Smellmet said:
Yes please elaborate. I'm not being confrontational here but how old are you? Reason I'm asking is I imagine older trekkers are more of a fan of TMP, myself included.
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No, not really -- though I've always loved TMP (which came out when I was 11), there were always plenty of fans of my age and older who didn't care for it because they felt it was too cold and emotionally aloof compared to TOS, and that the characters didn't feel like themselves. Of course, that was partly intentional; the story began with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy split apart and trapped on the wrong paths, needing to come together and recapture their old rapport in order to find themselves again. But it still didn't work for a lot of viewers who wanted something that felt more like the Star Trek they were used to. Part of why The Wrath of Khan was considered to have "saved" the franchise was because many fans felt it did capture the old Trek flavor that TMP had failed to recreate.
 
Christopher said:
No, not really -- though I've always loved TMP (which came out when I was 11), there were always plenty of fans of my age and older who didn't care for it because they felt it was too cold and emotionally aloof compared to TOS, and that the characters didn't feel like themselves. Of course, that was partly intentional; the story began with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy split apart and trapped on the wrong paths, needing to come together and recapture their old rapport in order to find themselves again. But it still didn't work for a lot of viewers who wanted something that felt more like the Star Trek they were used to. Part of why The Wrath of Khan was considered to have "saved" the franchise was because many fans felt it did capture the old Trek flavor that TMP had failed to recreate.
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It's a shame. The early meeting between the troika has plenty of shades of the old dynamic but Spock's character arc is a necessary Road block to the old dynamic. He couldn't really go straight back to racist banter with McCoy right after his epiphany. Much of McCoy's dialogue feels about right, although I wish he'd had some dialogue with Chapel. Does he even speak directly to her at all in the movie?

I think because the final third wasn't fully rounded, they missed an opportunity to fluff up some of the dialogue there but it's the middle of the movie that had the most opportunity for banter. A briefing scene with senior staff might have helped perhaps. I've long said that sending a shuttle after Spock (with tweaks to the plot to make it feasible) might have given another opportunity for some character moments.
 
Christopher said:
No, not really -- though I've always loved TMP (which came out when I was 11), there were always plenty of fans of my age and older who didn't care for it because they felt it was too cold and emotionally aloof compared to TOS, and that the characters didn't feel like themselves. Of course, that was partly intentional; the story began with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy split apart and trapped on the wrong paths, needing to come together and recapture their old rapport in order to find themselves again. But it still didn't work for a lot of viewers who wanted something that felt more like the Star Trek they were used to. Part of why The Wrath of Khan was considered to have "saved" the franchise was because many fans felt it did capture the old Trek flavor that TMP had failed to recreate.
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Like I said it's only an impression I get. I don't for the life of me seeing someone who's a teenager or in their 20s now liking TMP - I think most people of that age group who watch it now would be like 'huh?' and be bemused by all the long shots of the enterprise and vger, surely it's the older guard who appreciate the movie, but obviously with the caveat that they liked it at the time back in the day maybe? I dunno, I'm nearly 45 and I've always loved it. I guess there's some older die hard TOS fans that still hate it for being so different to what they were expecting but surely the biggest portion of the films fan base will be the 40 and overs.

I dunno I'm obviously not basing this on any facts, it would be interesting to hear from any younger fans on here who like the movie.
 
Smellmet said:
Like I said it's only an impression I get.
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And what I'm saying is not an impression but actual knowledge. There are plenty of older fans who hated TMP. You and I love it, but many of our contemporaries and seniors do not.

Fan opinions have never, ever been uniform across a generation, and they never will be. There have always been disagreements and arguments, lovers and haters of any new production, no less 40 years ago than today. Fans aren't the Borg. We have individual opinions.


I don't for the life of me seeing someone who's a teenager or in their 20s now liking TMP - I think most people of that age group who watch it now would be like 'huh?' and be bemused by all the long shots of the enterprise and vger...
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Many of them, sure, but again, it's unwise to generalize. I grew up in the '70s and '80s, but I love '40s movies. Some people like retro stuff.
 
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