Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

There are people talking in the vacuum of space, talking raccoons and magical stones. It's dumb as fuck. That wasn't my point though and I confused my own point by starting this "dumb" argument.

My point was that we should probably hold movies to a higher standard. It's much easier to enjoy something when it doesn't fall apart the moment you have a second to think about it.

 

You have to do you. If something is hampering your enjoyment of it, then you have every right not to like it. I base my enjoyment on the entertainment factor.

As an aside: Endgame bored me.

 

With me, it had my attention all the way through, but only because I wanted to see what's going to happen. Now that all the twists have been revealed, I have no interest in seeing the movie again.

 

I don't see where any of those things make it "dumb", and I have been thinking about it quite a bit since I saw it and it hasn't fallen apart at all for me.

 

Additional Thoughts and MCU Rankings
I may have skipped the scene with Rogers and the support group in the review, but I do point out that that's certainly an important scene, establishing that many people wouldn't have moved on from the cataclysm, and certainly calls back to what Sam was doing in Winter Soldier. For Scott Lang, travelling across America would have driven home the situation to him. Decaying roads, mostly empty towns, neighborhoods in major cities (not sure which route he would take though), like the one we saw in SF.
The Time Travel we see here is certainly different to the Time Travel movies they mention. Also, the scenes where Steve noticed Peggy were important, but the interactions between Tony and Howard attracted my attention more. The scene at the end with Old Cap wasn't that confusing, just completely unexpected. (More understandable than the 'Timey Wimey' storylines in Seasons 5 – 7 of Doctor Who).
Does anyone else think that when he went to the 2012 timeline, that Steve entrusted the Mind Sone to the Ancient One as well as the Time Stone. I mean, Loki's escape already presents a massive divergence in events, and he wouldn't want to give it to HYDRA. And in so doing, he would ensure that Von Strucker wouldn't get on it to experiment on Peitro and Wanda. Therefore no Ultron, and no Accords (at least not named after Sokovia)

Ranking of MCU films I saw in the cinema.
Captain Marvel
Captain America: Civil War (Tied with Captain Marvel)
Captain America: The Winter Soldier (Tied with Captain Marvel and Civil War)
Endgame
Infinity War (tied with Endgame)
Black Panther
Avengers (2012)
Thor (original)
Thor Ragnarok
Iron Man (Original)
Spider-Man Homecoming (Tied with Ragnarok and original Thor)
Ant-Man and the Wasp
Ant-Man
Age of Ultron (Tied with Ant-Man)
Iron Man 2
Thor The Dark World
Guardians of the Galaxy (Vol. 1, Tied with Dark World)
Guardians of the Galaxy Vo1 2.
Iron Man 3

 

Have you ever read a single comic book? They're full of goofy shit. You don't go into this expecting hard science, you want to see a talking raccoon and his adopted son who is a talking tree. Spider-Man should have gotten cancer instead of superpowers. But I don't want realism, I want a fun time watching superheroes save the universe.

 

I learned about some interesting points in IGN's article about cameos, callbacks, and Easter Eggs.
The members of Cap's support group included director Joe Russo, and Thanos creator Jim Starlin, and Joe Russo's daughter Ava Russo played Lila Barton. And just in case anyone didn't recognize him, the kid standing by himself at Tony's funeral was Harley, the kid from Iron Man 3, and he was played by the same actor, Ty Simpkins.
Morgan's line about wanting a cheesburger was a callback to Iron Man 1, where Tony made Happy stop for hamburgers after he got back from Afganistan.
"On your left" was what Sam said to Tony when the first met while they were out running in DC.
The exchange about not doing anything stupid was the same conversation, only in reverse, that Steve and Bucky had when Bucky was getting ready to leave for WWII before Steve became Captain America.
Hiroyuki Sanada's character, Akihiko, was a member of the Shogun Reapers, a "Yakuza science clan", who fought S.H.I.E.L.D. in the comics.

 

Comics are inherently dumb because they were originally created as fairy tales for little kids and could never escape their roots. I love them. But they're dumb.

 

I have a question

In the final battle when strange opens the portals, after the wakandans we switch to a portal that Valkyrie and Korg come out of with a horde of asgardians and in the background what appears to be asgard itself. (Floaty castle asgard)

Pls explain

 

Stop exaggerating. There is no "Stark anger." Often, he was a very, screwed up character. Even in Endgame, after his first scene with Steve (leaving the ship), the next has him ranting at Rogers, when he knows he was in the wrong in their previous encounter (referring to the Iron Legion and wanting to murder Bucky).

Stark attempted to access the Mind Stone as part of his creation of Ultron and the not above board Iron Legion program that he--answering to no authority--wanted to set loose around the world. He could not know how an alien gem worked, yet he jumped right into using it for his grand plan. There's no getting around that, and as for Wanda, she--at the time of The Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron--is not some world-wise character knowing the full consequences of much. She was young, subject to manipulation (by Strucker) and still had much to learn. That's a far different position to be in than the one where a man had been around the block a hundred times and should have been more accountable with his flights of master planning with the inherently dangerous technology at his fingertips (including an Infinity Stone that was beyond his--and Banner's ability to truly understand it). Its one of the reasons Steve and Thor are upset with him in AoU, and their anger was justified.

In the case of the Project Insight / Hydra incident, Rogers--once again--was without fault. He--and his allies--saved millions, what would have happened if he failed to act, or waited for some committee to authorize action? That's assuming the U.N. and/or Ross would believe him, and by the time every appeal was submitted, millions would have been executed. Ross (and the other creators of the accords) were talking out of their collective asses in adding that as some example of superpowered vigilantism.

If Stark really knew it was inevitable, he would have never considered creating his Ultron/Iron Legion project as that's the exactly the kind of "abuse" of unauthorized power that the accords were designed to curtail.

There's no other way to describe it--other than false imprisonment.

Where did it go? Confronting Rogers with Black Widow, Vision, Spider-Man, War Machine and an outsider with revenge on his mind (Black Panther) is not an act of compromise.

Stark did not break into the RAFT, that was Rogers near the end of the film. Earlier, Stark was visiting and the most "disobedient" thing in that scene was preventing Ross and the others from hearing his conversation with Sam.

As for Wanda, she fought back, but still ended up hurt and imprisoned. So much for the compromise.

What were his options? Trust the Joint Terrorism Task Force, which had no interest in listening to Rogers, and assumed Bucky was guilty?

Even if Stark learned the truth up front, Stark still would have tried to murder Bucky, leading to the same end result.

Doubtful. Steve was well aware of all of Stark's weaponry and had to be beaten back (by having F.R.I.D.A.Y analyze fight patterns he should have been familiar with by that point in their experiences together) just to gain an edge. As it played out, Bucky was seconds away from destroying Stark's arc reactor, and moments later, Rogers had Stark's life in his hands--but did not kill him. The opposite of Stark, who was willing to kill Rogers & Barnes.

Okay.

 

She did. She and Tony had an awesome repulsor beam team up moment.

 

Those are the two theories. The directors say he created and lived in an alternate timeline and jumped back to the original when he was old. The Screenwriters say he was living in the original timeline the whole time (that's why we never found out who Peggy's husband was).

She goes to earth first to answer the pager. We see this in the credits scene in her movie. The Avengers tell her Tony was last seen leaving on Thanos's ship. Reasoning that they were headed to Titan, she heads that way and finds Tony in space before she gets there.

 

I honestly don't blame you. The movie is hard work. I think endgame may be my least favourite marvel movie. Seen it three times once by myself, once with a friend and once with a group of friends and I just can't bring myself to like it.

 

It's definitely not Asgard they come from, but New Asgard on Earth. You can see the green hills, the town and the temple or church that is bring constructed in the centre of town.

 

When did Hawkeye get his bow and arrows back? He suddenly had them after the compound was destroyed, but I didn't see that he had them before. Did he have them the entire time as Ronin along with his sword?

 

I think Black Widow being outright dead, Gamora being more or less dead, Thor's conga line of loss, and Steven's "retirement", being the most emotionally affecting things from Infinity War and Endgame.

I didn't take Tony's death and funeral too well either, but at least he died in triumph and surrounded by family/friends - I feel so-so sad about Natasha and Prime Gamora (Natasha's heroic suicide was heartbreaking and Gamora was snatched away as a small child).

 

He had them on Vormir already. He must've ditched the sword as soon as he joined the team.

 

If all timelines are equally real, then trillions are dead in the Thanos wins timeline, and they all stay dead in the Thanos wins again timeline.

The notion that Peggy Carter was a working spy with a secret husband contradicts an entire TV series (even it is was short-lived.)

Awesome Possum is entirely correct that comic book movies incorporate comic book goofiness. The thing is, expecting the viewer to easily combine tolerating goofiness at the very same moment they're expected to feel intense emotions. I didn't feel intense emotion at the end of the first half, because I knew comic book goofiness meant it would be undone. This movie has a bizarre plot intended solely to give sad time to a few characters (and a happy ending for Steve Rogers.) The goofy interferes with being appropriately solemn.

TREK_GOD_1 relies solely on Wanda's inexperience. Wanda let Tony keep the scepter because of what she saw in Tony's mind and knew it was at least dangerous, or would make it clear exactly much a threat Stark was. Other's seem to read this as Wanda planting the idea, but that can't be. If that was really her doing, she wouldn't have planned to take the scepter in the first place.

Stark has never been about accountability, but about him controlling things. I suppose to be fair that's what he thinks accountability is. Instead of letting Iron Monger sell his weapons, he supposedly gets out of the business, and goes into making suits, which he never relinquishes control of, permitting only dear friends access. In Civil War in particular, it's Stark taking charge all the way. The moment he disagrees with Ross and Freeman, he does what he wants.

 

No it doesn't. It just means his return happened after Agent Carter season 2.

 

And Sharon Carter doesn't know this? Sorry, can't believe it.

Also, Sharon Carter was still in the spy game in Ant-man. Again, she can't have a secret marriage to Steve Rogers and do that.