Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

[stj]

Claudia in another place says, agree to disagree. If only... In the comments objections to the crude way the Stark character moments is reduced to Stark hate, or envy of a paycheck.

If Tony and Pepper are still made up at the beginning, then Tony has zero reason to think the daughter won't be born. This does not help your case.

And it doesn't matter if you don't consider it an apology, the problem with Howard Stark's heart to heart is that is absurd, and its sole purpose is to make Tony feel better.

I have no idea why anyone thinks dismissing the first death scene as a fake justifies the movie, rather than highlighting the problems with how the movie centers everything around the desire to get sentimental over a few characters.

On other parts of the thread, anyone who thinks William Hurt, Martin Freeman and Robert Downey Jr. constitute "international supervision" is just repeating dialogue, rather than looking at the screen and seeing what the characters do. Looking at what they actually do, rather than accept what they say, is good advice for real life too, not just for watching movies.

There was no timeline where Peggy Carter was happily married, until Steve Rogers showed up.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Vindication! The Screenwriters disagree with the directors on how Caps last time travel worked. And it matches my interpretation!
From the Fandango interview:

Steve wouldn't have just wanted to spend the time with Peggy. He would have wanted Peggy to be able to spend the time with him. He would have wanted this to be real, in his timeline.

 

[Set Harth]

It's still real in whatever timeline.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Not if he goes back to another timeline and it never happened. He (or at least I) would need to know that the woman I loved had the opportunity to love me back. Not a copy of her.

 

[Set Harth]

Neither one is any more a copy than the other, and going from "timeline beta" to "timeline alpha" doesn't mean that events in timeline beta never happened.

So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline.

It's a new timeline just from him being there, because originally he wasn't there.

 

[UssGlenn]

It's a new timeline just from him being there, because originally he wasn't there.

Yes but the theory here is that he never wasn't. The Marvel movies we watched all had an older Steve Rogers behind the scenes.

 

[Captrek]

If the new timelines ceased to exist when the Avengers left them, they killed a lot more people than Thanos. Sure, they were people the Avengers had themselves created, but that doesn’t seem to make it OK (DS9: A Man Apart).

 

[ITDUDE]

If the new timelines ceased to exist when the Avengers left them, they killed a lot more people than Thanos. Sure, they were people the Avengers had themselves created, but that doesn’t seem to make it OK (DS9: A Man Apart).

Reality is not same as timeline. In MCU, new reality is created only when something changes compared to “prime” reality. If that something is reversed, ie it never happened, new reality ceases to exist since there is nothing that would cause it come into existence. Those people are not killed, they never existed in first place.

 

[JD]

Saw this this morning, and I loved it, it was an amazing conclusion to this whole era of Marvel movies.
The time heist was a great way to revisit some moments from past movies, and even gave us some new scenes to add to those moments.
I was really surprised to see Rene Russo, and Robert Redford back. Were there new scenes with Natalie Portman or did they just add Rocket and Thor into old footage with her from The Dark World?
Loved Tony's encounter with his father, I didn't realize that was what they were doing, but at the end I realized it was him finally getting closure on his daddy issues.
I also got a big kick out of Jarvis cameo back in the '70s, it wasn't an Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. character like I was hoping for, but it was pretty close.
Loved the combined Hulk/Banner.
The big battle with 2014 Thanos and his army at the end was awesome, probably one of my favorite movie battles ever.
The moment where the unsnapped characters, and their other allies showed up was awesome. Valkyrie's winged horse was especially cool.
The sequence with all of the women teaming up in the battle was also a really cool moment. Nice to see the ladies of the MCU getting some attention.
Loved Captain Marvel showing up and taking out Thanos's ship. Which also brings up one of my few complaints, I was really hoping she'd get a bigger role.
The way they brought back Gamora was not what I was expecting at all. The stuff with the two different Nebulas was also a nice little twist.
The post 5 year job Thor was pretty good, it gave us some good laugh, and was a nice way of showing how effected people were by the Snap. So does his ending here mean that he'll be in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 or will that be set before Infinity War?
I had expected this to be the end of Iron Man and Captain America's stories, but the ways their stories ended were not quite what I expected. Iron Man sacrificing himself to end the battle was a great moment, and I loved his "I am Iron Man" as he did it. Cap going back to live with Peggy was the perfect ending for him, it's how I was hoping his story would end since The First Avenger. So does this mean that they faked the identity of the other guy that she married in order to hide the fact that it was really Steve the whole time? Or did he change the timeline?
I was really disappointed they killed Natasha, but at least we still have her solo movie coming up. I guess this pretty much confirms it will be a prequel.
I saw a couple questions on an IGN article that bring up good points.
How did Captain Marvel find Tony and Nebula? She just kind of randomly shows up, so was she looking for them, or did she just stumble across them by accident? It was a cool moment, but it did feel kind of random, so a even just a line or two about how she found them would have been nice.
Where did Valkyrie's horse in the end battle come from? I was actually wondering about this one even before the IGN article. The only time we saw them before this was in the flashback to the battle with Hela in Ragnarok, and I can't remember for sure but I'm pretty sure we saw out Valkyrie's mount die with the rest. So where did this new one (Aragorn? Or was he her mount in the battle against Hela?) come from? Was he the same one stashed away somewhere all this time?
This isn't from the IGN article, but I was still wondering about it. Do we know for a fact that the Hawkeye show will be Clint and Kate Bishop, and now him and Lila? The opening scene with Lila and Clint definitely felt like a set up for her to become the new Hawkeye.
Now that we have teenage Cassie it could be fun to see her become and size changing hero herself, like in the comics.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The footage of Natalie Portman was unused footage from Thor the Dark World, but Portman provided a little bit of new dialogue.

 

[BillJ]

Didn't grade it, as I fell asleep twice. My wife and son both enjoyed it.

 

[JD]

Oh, I just remembered something else I meant to comment on. I loved Pepper getting to kick ass in her own armor.

 

[Captrek]

Oh, I just remembered something else I meant to comment on. I loved Pepper getting to kick ass in her own armor.

I don’t remember her kicking ass so much as scooping up people and carrying them away from danger. The Rescue moniker is fitting.

 

[JD]

I thought she did some fighting, but even if she didn't it was still nice to see her finally getting her own armor.

 

[crookeddy]

So given that the movie has numerous glaring plot holes, can we really continue to call it a great movie? If a movie is entertaining, but makes no sense, is it actually good?

 

[BillJ]

If a movie is entertaining, but makes no sense, is it actually good?

The point is to entertain. So I'd say yes.

 

[ITDUDE]

The point is to entertain. So I'd say yes.

Pretty much this.

 

[JD]

So given that the movie has numerous glaring plot holes, can we really continue to call it a great movie? If a movie is entertaining, but makes no sense, is it actually good?

No movie is perfect, and I didn't see enough big plot holes to ruin my enjoyment, so I'll continue to say this it is an amazing movie.

 

[crookeddy]

Pretty much this.

I guess all those people who don't enjoy movies for being "dumb" are missing the point then?

 

[JD]

It might not be Asamov or Clarke level smart, but I wouldn't really call Endgame "dumb".