Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

He had the particles and the suit. And he could've asked Hank Pym in the other timeline for help sending him back.

 

In the end, when Bucky sends Sam to talk to Old Steve, Bucky shows no interest in talking to Old Steve himself. Some viewers have interpreted this to mean Bucky has already talked to Old Steve, and Bucky’s demeanor does seam consistent with that. But that would mean that (28) is before (17), which would mean forking the timeline.

 

Just read Downey was paid $75 000 000 for this. That explains why he gets to do two death scenes. The one with Nebula even had a deathbed farewell speech! He gets to do both the reluctant hero who doesn't sign on, and the guy who independently figures everything out. He gets to decide that everybody killed in the chaos of the snap is Wicked Witch of the East dead so that he gets to have a wife and daughter without the hassle of making up with Pepper again. And he gets to lay this down without anyone even arguing! He gets an apology from his dead father for being a bad father even though the on-screen premise is that Howard Stark is talking to a random stranger. He gets to be the martyr. When we saw Stark giving his own epitaph at his own funeral, I wondered if the producers weren't secretly making fun of us for being so oblvious.

The depowering of Thor, the out of nowhere personality for Hulk, the random power changes in Thanos, who can sometimes crush everyone without the gauntlet but other times a guy in a metal suit can kick him around...those are all kind of hard to swallow. I suppose the first was an inevitable consequence of the folly of Ragnarok but the new Bruce/Hulk ignores both Banner's anger issues (the most important character trait!) and the Hulk's cowardice in the first half of the gauntlet story. The stalling on Thanos' defeat was just pointless physical jeopardy so all the superheroes could get face time...which they made very obvious by unmasking for no reason except so the audience could see.

Captain Marvel's appearance suffered for me because the discovery she was busy roaming the galaxy meant she should have been keeping tabs on Ronan, a threat she knew about personally? So she should have been aware of Thanos' role in seeking the power stone? And she should have known about Thanos trashing Xandar? Making her look cool is all very nice I guess, but it's so much less impressive if you wonder about these things. (It is not a choice to think of these questions. They just come, like demonic possession.)

Having Natasha save Hawkeye for himself, for Laura and her daughter just made me wonder why she had no one in her life.

Voted C.

 

Actually, while this is how Tony wanted things, going back and preventing the snap wouldn't change their timeline, just create a new one where it didn't happen (one that already has their own set of Avengers). So no matter what, that 5 years was going to stay unchanged.

 

Of course, you’re talking about Quantum Realm time travel. The Time Stone, on the other hand, can apparently undo events that have already happened. I don’t think Strange forked the timeline when he rewound the destruction of the Hong Kong Sanctum and death of Wong.

 

She did have people in her life. They were the same people Hawkeye had in his life. I cringed when they said in Endgame, "Do we even know if she had family?"

 

Natasha had some serious self-esteem issues stemming from her inability to have children. She even told Bruce in AOU that it made her just as much of a monster as the Hulk. Maybe that’s why she didn’t have a lover.

 

People keep misunderstanding that line. When she said she was a monster it had nothing to do with her being sterilized. She was talking about how she had been raised as a living weapon and forced to kill the girls she grew up with for the Red Room.

 

True, but we never see them actually rewind time more than a few minutes on a large scale. The apple goes a few weeks, the torn book, a few months I assume. But rewinding the whole earth 5 years? I don't think Strange is that powerful.

 

*gets headache trying to read that*

Ahhh yes. That explains it. He lived with Peggy in that AU then came back to give Falcon the shield.

 

We have no idea what the limits of the Time Stone are, or if it even has limits. The Avengers probably didn’t know either. It made sense to clarify before PH’s snap that a time rewind was not something they were going to attempt.

 

The cowardice was always just a fan theory about why the Hulk was refusing to come out. Apparently, the actual reason was supposed to be that the Hulk didn't like being exploited a tool, to come out for fights and then be treated as an abomination after. At least according to the directors or screenwriters (I can't remember who exactly). I can't imagine anyone figuring that out just from watching the films.

Is there any particular reason she'd be expected to keep tabs on Ronan or Xandar? The universe is a big place. She never even met Ronan, not really.

 

Yeah, I was figuring that Steve would realize that coming off of a 1 in 14 million victory is not the time you want to start dickering around with how everything turned out, but I suppose he would always have a backup reality to go to if he really screws the pooch.

"I came back because I needed to pass the shield on. Also, the Earth where I was living was engulfed by a giant space fungus. Didn't see that one coming."

 

His resentment at being used for fights was such a big deal in Ragnarok? You're right, no one watching the films could figure that out.

MCU is a tiny place, proven by both Thor and the Hulk landing on the only gas station between Earth and Asgard, the Grandmaster's planet. Also proven by the Guardians so close they could hear the Asgardian distress signal. The universe is so small there is no place without cellular!

New timelines are constantly being created anyhow, which thus is not an objection. If they had undone the original snap, no, the current Avengers would be reset to who they were then. Tony thought he wouldn't fix things with Pepper without the snap, therefore he didn't want the five years of postapocalyptic despair for the largest part of the universe to change. Which was my point.

Well, as I said, she sacrificed herself for them, so evidently I thought of them as people in her life. What I should have said more clearly, why she didn't have anyone in her life but a family she borrowed on occasion from Clint?

 

I got to see the movie, and it was great. It had really good action, jokes that made me laugh, twists I didn't see coming and a few moments where...dust got in my eyes. Yeah, it was definitely just dust, especially during the funeral

The movie didn't feel like 3 hours, which was great. My only real issue with the movie was that having the two Nebula's be connected, which felt extremely contrived and only done because they needed a reason for past Thanos to figure out what was happening. Besides that I was happy with the film, and I can't wait to see where the MCU goes from here (although I'm not particularly interested in Far from Home, after that I'm really interested to see where the MCU is going).

I'd rate the movie an A or 9/10

 

One minor thing to point out, the reason Thor and Hulk both ended up on Sakaar is because that's where anyone using a wormhole without a proper exit point (or something messes up the wormhole teleport) will end up. The planet is the Terminus for all "lost in a wormhole" people. It wasn't coincidence.

 

In T:R, Odin says to Thor, “That hammer helped you control your power, focus it. But it was never the source of your strength.” That meant Thor could summon lightning without Mjolnir. But if Mjolnir wasn’t the source of the lightning-summoning power, how was Cap able to do it?

 

Because whoever holds the hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.

 

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

 

I'm not sure why people keep saying Bucky showed no interest in talking with Old Steve, he just encouraged Sam to go first. I mean, Steve didn't die right then and here, there'd be plenty of time for the two of them to talk. That scene wasn't about two friends talking, it was about passing on the torch.

On a related note, I've also seen several people claim that Bucky is the logical choice because he has the super serum (or Zola's closest approximation.) Clearly some people either weren't paying attention in CA:TFA and forgot how and why a ninety-pound asthmatic ended up being chosen to be Captain America in the first place.