It's pretty funny how the quality of the show has been slipping since D&D ran out of books to borrow scripts from.
Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
It's pretty funny how the quality of the show has been slipping since D&D ran out of books to borrow scripts from.
Even if you include the off-screen discussion, the Night King didn't really have that much build up overall. There were plenty of other baddies who got more screen time and were killed off early, like Joffrey and Tywin.
In terms of the greater story arc, one can say the purpose of the Night King was to forge Jon into a man who can actually realistically claim the Iron Throne. In the absence of the White Walkers, he just would have been a Crow, maybe eventually becoming lord commander in middle age.
If it doesn't work for you, fine. But it's a big mistake IMHO to presume this wasn't GRRM's plan all along. All indications that have been given suggest that the show is ending on the same broad strokes as the books would have. I doubt he plays to have Arya land the killing blow, and I suspect Cercei is swapped out for Young Griff as the final antagonist in the books, but I'm pretty confident the Night King isn't left until the next to last chapter or anything.
I think it's the smart choice. As has been repeatedly noted, it follows Tolkien. In Lord of the Rings, Sauron is defeated with five chapters left to go, and there's an entire secondary arc dealing with the crowning of Aragorn and the defeat of Saruman/Wormtongue. In The Hobbit, Smaug is also defeated with five chapters left to go, with much of the remainder set aside to battles over his treasure.
Simply put, there's a lot of shit yet to figure out in universe. Will Jon come forward with his true parentage to the public? Will Dany marry him, or shiv him at the last minute as a rival to the throne? Will one or both of them die for other reasons? Will Cleganebowl happen? Who is going to kill Cersei? Will Gendry end up with Arya? Will Gendry be named the Baratheon heir? What's Sansa going to do? Will Bron actually kill Tyrion or Jamie, have a change of heart, or be killed by someone else? None of this stuff can happen with the existential threat of the Night King hanging out there, because everyone is focused on the battle of The Living vs. The Dead. The current point in the arc is the denouement, which allows for some space to begin resolving some of these issues prior to the epilogue (which presumably will be the entire final episode).
Someone is about to kill your brother, and threatens the existence of everyone you care about, while attacking your home, you have earned the right to defend everyone--instantly. Like I mentioned in my last post, no one else could have actually pulled it off.
I enjoyed it more once I had no idea what might be coming around the corner......
Based on the scene last season when the Ironborn soldier kept kneeing him in the crotch and Theon didnt go down like a punk, would indicate his balls are gone, too.
At least with Joffrey and Tywin, their deaths felt earned and i feel added something to the greater narrative. The Night's King and the showdown with the Army of the Dead, which has been building since the first episode feels like a foot note. Jon Snow spent two seasons telling everyone how unstoppable the Army of the dead is, and they don't even make it past winterfell? Ok sure, what would I know, G.R.R Martin is the perfect writer.
There are dozens of other ways Jon could have been tested for his worthiness to claim the Iron Throne. You could have left out the White Walkers entirely and had the Wildlings as the enemy Jon needs to subdue. Making peace with the wildlings and eventually integrating them into the North would have been a fine way of showing what type of King he would be without the nonsense of magical snow zombies.
We also don't really know if this was his plan all along. At least not until he finally finishes writing the final 2 books, if he ever does.
I honestly don't think I give a shit and I don't trust D&D to wrap any of this up in a satisfactory fashion. But YMMV.
I think plenty of people could have pulled it off, lots of valyrian steel and dragonglass lying around.
Good for you.
But who could actually take the shot? Let's use Jon as an example--did he have the skills? I believe he did without question. But he did not have the stealth ability to get passed the army of the dead. Jon was ready for his showdown, but the Night King waved his hand and put about 100 dead people between him and Jon. While Jon was fighting them, the Night King went for Bran.
I wish they had switched the order. Set up a situation that forces them to resolve the game of thrones first so they can consolidate and take on the larger threat together. That would've kept raising the stakes. They definitely got the order wrong.
Considering the Night's King was suddenly stupid enough to expose himself like that instead of getting his lackeys to capture Bran. Jon probably could have challenged him to a dance off and thrown a dragonglass dagger at him.
The Night King himself didn't get much buildup, true, but the White Walker invasion and the second coming of the Long Night was the main driving force of the show since the very first scene. I strongly disagree with the notion that the White Walkers aren't the primary antagonist. The main theme of the show is that all this petty bickering over the throne is pointless when everyone should be focused on the true threat to the world. Now they wrap up the true threat and they're back to the petty bickering? Yeah, I don't like it.
I don't mind a "Scouring of the Shire" moment where they have to clean up Cersei after the end, but that doesn't make Cersei the true final boss.
I know you keep saying that. But that doesn't make it the best decision.
Bran was surrounded by Theon and the Iron Born. The Night King didn't expose himself until Theon was the only one left. Meanwhile, his minions did surround Bran. It was fairly safe. He was going for the kill shot when Arya came out of nowhere. He still almost stopped her.
They should've just made a buttload of iron glass tipped arrows and spears and peppered him with those.
Saying it didn't work for you is fine. I never claimed GRRM was the perfect writer, or this is the perfect way to end things. I just think it's shortsighted to pin all the blame on D&D and act like GRRM would have come up with an arc more to your liking here.
The problem isn't Jon's worthiness for the throne in the eyes of the public. It's his worthiness in his own eyes. Jon is a reluctant leader who has no personal desire for power. He only takes power when absolutely needed in order to do what's right. Not to mention without the death and resurrection he would still be stuck a Crow even if he found out his true parentage, absent some kind of royal pardon. I suppose I can see some scenario where he takes Stannis up on the bait when it's floated to make him the heir to the Starks. But at most that leaves him (depending upon how things work out) King of the North, not King of the Seven Kingdoms. You need a greater threat than that.
Fundamentally I think both the book series and the TV show are mostly character-based, not plot-based. This is why even now we have so many scenes where the mains sit around talking about things which aren't even particularly plot relevant. Honestly I wouldn't even mind if Cercei wins, so long as the character arcs through the remainder of the show are compelling.
I'm not sure I trust D&D either, but so far, this season has been better than last season.
I mean they could have just had the Night's King, send part of his army to destroy winterfell and capture Bran while he continued on to to King's Landing. He had like 100,000 dead guys at his disposal.
Agreed. And, whoever wins the throne at the end is fairly meaningless. If the show is true to itself, the person who wins the throne will be someone politically skilled and ruthless. That's how it works in Westeros. Fast forward a bit and it'll be someone else because they're playing the game too. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Big deal.
While the showrunners do seem fixated on the "game of thrones" storyline as being the main thing, I hope they're courageous enough to change things up in the end. Make some meaningful change rather than just keeping the game going.
Again, have his lackey's kill the iron born, and take bran while he watches from safe distance. He had 100,000 troops at his beck and call, there was literally no need for him to show up. His army could have killed everyone and then he could have swooped in on Viserion and picked up Bran.
But that's human nature dude. Did anything fundamental change after World War 2 for example? Not really, the USA and the Soviet Union - erstwhile allies - were at each others throats in less than five years.
One of the central themes of ASOIAF is to deconstruct the weird lauding of nobility that happens in traditional fantasy. Nobles, Lords, even Kings are just men, and are as flawed as the rest of us. Worse, they are all too often corrupted due to having power with no accountability. It would entirely invert the themes of the novels if there was a "happily ever after" which showed the conflict had somehow caused everyone to change for the better, because GRRM doesn't believe there can be a better till Westeros has its own enlightenment.
Those are good points. They just don't make for a very satisfying conclusion. At least not for me. But, I have to agree it would be consistent with what the showrunners seem to be prioritizing. I haven't read the books but it sounds like it matches those.
I'm still hoping that they are courageous enough to break the game at the end. So while that is human nature, it is possible in the real world to go from monarchies to democracies. It is impossible to improve conditions.
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