Poll Season 3 Federation

[Ralphis]

Considering the (assumed) fall of the Romulan Empire due the sun going supernova and the Federation absorbing most of the remnants, the Klingon Empire joining the Federation by the 26 century, and knowledge of other means of space travel (quantum slipstream drive, subspace corridors, etc.) its reasonable that the Federation at some point could potentially reach far, far into the Beta Quadrant, perhaps even 50,000 light years... give or take...

SO... My guess is that there was a major conflict that either shattered or split the Federation, and Discovery just happens to be on the wrong side of the fence.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Another reason I don't want a "fall of the Federation" story is because it makes all of Trek pointless.

Think of it. How could you ever watch any Trek series or movie, or read a novel (regardless of when they take place), given that you'd now know it's all going to be for nothing? If the Federation falls, what's the point of anything?

Nothing lasts forever. If the Federation brought (relative) peace and prosperity to the galaxy for several hundred years, it was entirely worthwhile.

And anyway, even if the Federation we knew has fallen, Michael and friends will almost certainly have a new one up and running in no time.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Nothing lasts forever.

Not in real life, no. But the Federation can.

It can last as long as the writers allow it.

The Federation IS Star Trek. Take that away, and what's left?

 

[Yistaan]

Not in real life, no. But the Federation can.

It can last as long as the writers allow it.

The Federation IS Star Trek. Take that away, and what's left?

Section 31. They were there long before the Federation (as seen in Enterprise) and will be there long after it's gone.

The Dominion is also far older than the Federation. For all we know, once Odo is gone the Founders will relapse into their galactic conquest ways.

 

[eschaton]

The Federation IS Star Trek. Take that away, and what's left?

The Federation isn't Star Trek. It really wasn't well defined in early TOS, and didn't exist in ENT (although we began to see its origin story).

Star Trek is about a certain humanistic ethos and style of storytelling, not lore.

 

[SJGardner]

The Federation IS Star Trek. Take that away, and what's left?

Even if they took the Federation away, I don't think it would be completely gone. If nothing else, its ruins, its history, its survivors and their descendants could be there. The ancient civilizations have fallen, but they didn't disappear without a trace, the United States being built on the ideals of Greek Democracy and the Roman Republic is a testament to that.

And I think instead of the Federation being Star Trek, it's rather about the ideals the Federation embodies. Which is why I think an Andromeda-style "rebuilding hope" arc could work very well as a Star Trek series pitch: finding themselves in a world that all but forgot what the Federation stood for, Discovery would end up serving as the light reigniting the flame, both in the world and in themselves. And I don't even think this would be just like any dystopian science fiction, simply by virtue of the Federation's history and possibly its ruins being there as a backdrop. And the ideals they'd bring back into the world would be those of the Federation.

 

[Yistaan]

Even if they took the Federation away, I don't think it would be completely gone. If nothing else, its ruins, its history, its survivors and their descendants could be there. The ancient civilizations have fallen, but they didn't disappear without a trace, the United States being built on the ideals of Greek Democracy and the Roman Republic is a testament to that.

And I think instead of the Federation being Star Trek, it's rather about the ideals the Federation embodies. Which is why I think an Andromeda-style "rebuilding hope" arc could work very well as a Star Trek series pitch: finding themselves in a world that all but forgot what the Federation stood for, Discovery would end up serving as the light reigniting the flame, both in the world and in themselves. And I don't even think this would be just like any dystopian science fiction, simply by virtue of the Federation's history and possibly its ruins being there as a backdrop. And the ideals they'd bring back into the world would be those of the Federation.

How would this even work out though? I mean, why would anyone in the far future even listen to what Burnham or Discovery have to say? These are a bunch of people no one's even heard of, a thousand years out of date, suddenly showing up and telling people what to do?

We literally have war veterans, politicians who helped build countries, concentration camp survivors and others writing columns in the real world warning about the way certain elements of modern society are heading. Their columns show up on a few news websites and the world goes on as usual. Why would Discovery's impact on wherever they are going be any different?

 

[SJGardner]

How would this even work out though? I mean, why would anyone in the far future even listen to what Burnham or Discovery have to say? These are a bunch of people no one's even heard of, a thousand years out of date, suddenly showing up and telling people what to do?

We literally have war veterans, politicians who helped build countries, concentration camp survivors and others writing columns in the real world warning about the way certain elements of modern society are heading. Their columns show up on a few news websites and the world goes on as usual. Why would Discovery's impact on wherever they are going be any different?

It all depends on the circumstances and being the right people in the right place. And I certainly don't say they'd arrive there and people would instantly greet them with fireworks. But in a setting that's bleak, war-torn, ruined and disorganized enough, with all hope having been lost, sometimes all that's needed is a spark. Someone from outside the context, without the ingrained prejudices against all the groups living there, showing up, helping people out, getting friends, and so on. There are myriads of stories about outside-context nobodies becoming leaders all through history.

And yes, this is assuming the setting is a fallen Federation of which only ruins remain, with the occasional planetary alliances, scavengers and pirates everywhere. It wouldn't work in a setting with 3-5 somewhat stable remnants waging wars against each other.

 

[PiotrB]

How would this even work out though? I mean, why would anyone in the far future even listen to what Burnham or Discovery have to say? These are a bunch of people no one's even heard of, a thousand years out of date, suddenly showing up and telling people what to do?

Why in the 22nd century did anyone listen to what Archer had to say? He came from an unknown and underdeveloped planet, appeared and told them what to do. As you can see, 1000 years earlier it worked.

 

[Yistaan]

Why in the 22nd century did anyone listen to what Archer had to say? He came from an unknown and underdeveloped planet, appeared and told them what to do. As you can see, 1000 years earlier it worked.

Except for a long time, the Vulcans didn't listen to what Archer had to say. And even after Enterprise ended, the other races "listened" to Archer so much that apparently they were non-involved with the Romulan War to the point that it's referred as the 'Earth-Romulan War' over a century later. Only after the war did all those other races come out of hiding and beg Archer to let them join him after he and Earth stopped those nasty Romulans.

So, unless Burnham and Discovery are willing to single handedly wipe out the V'Draysh or whoever the villains are in the far future, they probably won't listen to her until after she's done all the work for them. With tech that's 1,000 years out of date, even with the Sphere data.

 

[seigezunt]

I can't think of a variation on this that isn't going to annoy me on some level. Not changing the Federation will seem silly, eliminating would seem like making this something other than Star Trek, as would changing it considerably. I don't see a win here.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Not in real life, no. But the Federation can.

It can last as long as the writers allow it.

The Federation IS Star Trek. Take that away, and what's left?

People in a ship going on space adventures is Star Trek.

 

[Yistaan]

I can't think of a variation on this that isn't going to annoy me on some level. Not changing the Federation will seem silly, eliminating would seem like making this something other than Star Trek, as would changing it considerably. I don't see a win here.

I think the Federation being corrupted from within into something completely unrecognizable would work best. They can continue the Section 31 themes from the first 2 seasons. 'Homefront' and 'Paradise Lost' on DS9 touch on those themes really well, and they seem very relevant today.

It could also tie into the Picard show if Picard left Starfleet at horror at what it's becoming. Patrick Stewart has been outspoken about his dismay at many elements of real world politics and there's a big chance to tie that into his show, with Discovery ultimately showing what Picard is fighting to prevent the Federation from becoming.

 

[fireproof78]

I can't think of a variation on this that isn't going to annoy me on some level. Not changing the Federation will seem silly, eliminating would seem like making this something other than Star Trek, as would changing it considerably. I don't see a win here.

That's because there is no win here. The production team will always lose, no matter the decision or how well thought out they think it is.

The Dominion is also far older than the Federation. For all we know, once Odo is gone the Founders will relapse into their galactic conquest ways.

They merged together and become The Foundation!

 

[Yistaan]

They merged together and become The Foundation!

Ah yes, Asimov's famous enlightened society secretly controlled by telepaths working behind the scenes.

 

[PiotrB]

Except for a long time, the Vulcans didn't listen to what Archer had to say. And even after Enterprise ended, the other races "listened" to Archer so much that apparently they were non-involved with the Romulan War to the point that it's referred as the 'Earth-Romulan War' over a century later. Only after the war did all those other races come out of hiding and beg Archer to let them join him after he and Earth stopped those nasty Romulans.

So, unless Burnham and Discovery are willing to single handedly wipe out the V'Draysh or whoever the villains are in the far future, they probably won't listen to her until after she's done all the work for them. With tech that's 1,000 years out of date, even with the Sphere data.

I still don't see where you see the problem. If the scriptwriters want to tell such a story, Burnham and the Discovery crew will manage. Surely such a story will not be more improbable to the fact that one Voyager defeated the whole Borg collective.

 

[fireproof78]

I still don't see where you see the problem. If the scriptwriters want to tell such a story, Burnham and the Discovery crew will manage. Surely such a story will not be more improbable to the fact that one Voyager defeated the whole Borg collective.

You forget that when DSC does something improbably it's bad. When VOY did it its water under the bridge and people need to get over it

 

[SJGardner]

I still don't see where you see the problem. If the scriptwriters want to tell such a story, Burnham and the Discovery crew will manage. Surely such a story will not be more improbable to the fact that one Voyager defeated the whole Borg collective.

Remember when a jaded, washed-out widower placed at a rusty backwater outpost ended up, in the course of seven years, in a position where flag officers of his own and of several foreign armed forces as well as multiple heads of state were deferential to him and basically let him run an entire interstellar war his own way while he also became an important religious leader?

 

[fireproof78]

Remember when a jaded, washed-out widower placed at a rusty backwater outpost ended up, in the course of seven years, in a position where flag officers of his own and of several foreign armed forces as well as multiple heads of state were deferential to him and basically let him run an entire interstellar war his own way while he also became an important religious leader?

I'm sure that's a summary of the Picard show! I knew it would suck!

 

[Yistaan]

I still don't see where you see the problem. If the scriptwriters want to tell such a story, Burnham and the Discovery crew will manage. Surely such a story will not be more improbable to the fact that one Voyager defeated the whole Borg collective.

This is why Voyager is not a good show really. And now it's ok if Discovery does this?

You forget that when DSC does something improbably it's bad. When VOY did it its water under the bridge and people need to get over it

I hate Voyager, so no that doesn't apply to me. I even got into arguments with my college roommate who liked Voyager almost 2 decades ago about it. You should be more careful with that post.

I don't know any Voyager critics, literally not a single one, who feels it's "water under the bridge" at all. Who are you talking about? Please post an example. Although I suppose the winky face could mean it's just a joke. :P

I guess I'm a little sensitive since Voyager is my least favorite show. I like the cast and all, but the writing needed work to put it mildly.