Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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Assuming GRRM has finished the series in 20 years there eh?
The foreshadowing when Arya and Brienne were sparring ended showing how they would have killed each other if they weren't simply training. The Night King would have killed Arya, except for the plot armor.
If you could overlook the manifest nonsense (even by internal premises, like the vast horde of undead in the castle but numerous halls and rooms empty or nearly empty,) I'm sure the physical jeopardy was much more exciting. I couldn't, so the episode was not very good. The only real plot points were Daenerys ignoring the threats from Sansa and Jon, choosing still to defend Winterfell, but this is both character consistent and she didn't have a whole lot of other options, so this was kind of flaccid, dramatically speaking. And the Dothraki and the Unsullied no longer darken Westeros.
If you could overlook the manifest nonsense (even by internal premises, like the vast horde of undead in the castle but numerous halls and rooms empty or nearly empty,) I'm sure the physical jeopardy was much more exciting. I couldn't, so the episode was not very good. The only real plot points were Daenerys ignoring the threats from Sansa and Jon, choosing still to defend Winterfell, but this is both character consistent and she didn't have a whole lot of other options, so this was kind of flaccid, dramatically speaking. And the Dothraki and the Unsullied no longer darken Westeros.
I guess that's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it was the NK was going to go after Bran no matter where he was for some strange reason. It's not like Bran has done much to help the living! But, Bran could've been anywhere and the NK was going to go after him.
But, the fact that Bran was out in the open caused Jon and Dany to stay away from the battle and watch from a distance waiting for the Night King to pounce, which caused the destruction of the Dothraki.
Then, the living got an assist they shouldn't have counted on. Somehow Arya jumping out of nowhere to kill the Night King single-handedly. They got lucky. Very lucky. They also had to count on the supreme stupidity of the NK to place himself in jeopardy when he's apparently so fragile.
Well, I guess we each like different aspects of the series. I disagree with the review, but it appears like the show is going that direction. I would've like to have seen something more complex where we see the squabbles amongst the humans in the face of a survival threat. Can they get their shit together in time? Or, will someone out playing a "game" in the face of that threat risk the survival of all? That's a much more interesting story from my standpoint and is so reminiscent of how real humans behave. For me, that's the "real beating heart of this story."
Cersei is an interesting character but dealing with her doesn't seem like a good place to end the story.
And, that's an important point the show could've made. The political squabbles grab our attention. Yet, they're so petty compared to actual survival! We take our eye of the real issues for these petty things. The real survival issues become things that people "care little for."
Well, in some strange way it makes this case about our society but it cheapens the drama by placing a focus on the lesser elements.
But the white walkers are a once in a 1000 year threat. It comes, is defeated, and doesn't matter again for millennia (or perhaps in this case never will again). But who sits on the throne is MUCH more important to the lives the people of Westeros will be leading AFTER the threat is gone, and will matter for generations. This is the part that happens AFTER the hero is done, the "What next?" and FOR ME, that makes the stakes so much higher. I always knew the Night King would be defeated. I have NO IDEA who will end up on the iron throne.
That's exactly what I didn't get: First of all, why should the Night King make the first move - is he going to beam himself over the whole army of both sides just to get to Bran's side? (Why have an epic battle in the first hand?) So, Daeny and Jon did have time for a first sweep over the Undead, they didn't have to just sit around and do nothing.
I'm also not sure why the Dothraki even went out in the first place - why not wait for the Undead to come to them and/or work only with the catapults (and dragons)?
Bran wasn't used... we see him using the ravens, but to what effect? Why not send a message to the Night King? Some kind of "look, here I am"? Anything but just sit around. He even could have somehow distracted the Night King with a powerful vision/whatever to mask Arya's arrival...
And about the fire: Somehow I mistakenly thought that the fire only works to kill the White Walkers and have them stay dead, not the "regular" undead. Even more question marks over my head now why the dragons were so ill used.
Agreed - but in the way the series is structured and the battle went in this episode, the solution to the Iron Throne-issue can only be a visual downlet. They'll end the series now with a small battle (since there's no army to support Daeny any longer) and/or assassination and/or political plays and compromises... which is also what interests me. But it's just sort of an aftermath to the "big battle".
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Given that, as noted, GRRM was inspired to write A Song of Ice and Fire after reading historical accounts of the Wars of the Roses, it's rather surprising to me that people thought that the Iron Throne wouldn't end up being the 'ultimate' focus of the series.
I've come along to the hypothesis that they've basically combined Book Cercei with Young Griff. GRRM started building him up as a claimant to the Iron Throne (either legitimate or a Blackfyre) in ADWD. He had the Golden Company connection. Probably in the books the Night King is defeated early and then Jon and Dany have to deal with the pretender in the aftermath.
This one felt a bit disappointing. The undead were THE threat of the show, right from the start of the pilot episode. For years, the big idea was that everyone is wasting time/energy playing the Game of Thrones, and it doesn't really matter because the real threat is north of the Wall and coming for you all. We finally get to the beginning of that payofff, and they literally kill them all and end the threat in ONE episode. Which feels like a big cheat. Now we've got 3 more episodes to deal with Cersi, who apparently is the actual threat (and not the horde of undead). Eh, ok.
Fully expected to deal with her, and it being part of the endgame, but thought more of Winterfell might fall, Bran escapes, either wights attack Kings Landing next or survivors of Winterfell go there and team up for a last stand, something along those lines. Instead, we'll get traditional power struggle (like we've been dealing with all series) for a couple more episodes before Jaime kills Cersi and last man (or woman) standing takes the throne. Or decides it doesn't matter and they should go back to 7 realms or something.
Just disappointing that the undead thread was dealt with so quickly and easily (despite the cost, although thought that would be worse too). That and it was so dark/cloudy/fast moving that it was hard to tell what was happening in a lot of scenes. Trying to play to the terror of undead coming in out of the dark, not knowing the true horror of the enemy and their numbers, but just meant you couldn't tell what was happening a lot. There were at least a few people I had to check a recap to see if they were still alive, they disappeared into scrums a few times, but then didn't see them again. No death scene, so usually a good thing, but still, couldn't ever tell. Pod and Gendry, for example; couldn't tell you the last time we clearly saw their faces. Sam appeared to die a couple times, but then apparently just didn't at the end as we see him again.
I dunno, this one just wasn't a favorite for me, plot-wise or cinematography wise. Battle of the Bastards was much more visually interesting and easy to follow by comparison.
Fully expected to deal with her, and it being part of the endgame, but thought more of Winterfell might fall, Bran escapes, either wights attack Kings Landing next or survivors of Winterfell go there and team up for a last stand, something along those lines. Instead, we'll get traditional power struggle (like we've been dealing with all series) for a couple more episodes before Jaime kills Cersi and last man (or woman) standing takes the throne. Or decides it doesn't matter and they should go back to 7 realms or something.
Just disappointing that the undead thread was dealt with so quickly and easily (despite the cost, although thought that would be worse too). That and it was so dark/cloudy/fast moving that it was hard to tell what was happening in a lot of scenes. Trying to play to the terror of undead coming in out of the dark, not knowing the true horror of the enemy and their numbers, but just meant you couldn't tell what was happening a lot. There were at least a few people I had to check a recap to see if they were still alive, they disappeared into scrums a few times, but then didn't see them again. No death scene, so usually a good thing, but still, couldn't ever tell. Pod and Gendry, for example; couldn't tell you the last time we clearly saw their faces. Sam appeared to die a couple times, but then apparently just didn't at the end as we see him again.
I dunno, this one just wasn't a favorite for me, plot-wise or cinematography wise. Battle of the Bastards was much more visually interesting and easy to follow by comparison.
Probably because he also spent like 3000 pages telling us that none of it really mattered and the real threat was north of the wall?
Without more follow-up/explanation, the undead plot was the biggest waste of ink in quite some time. With the way they wrapped it up, you could legit remove 100% of the Night King, undead, Wall itself, and the story doesn't have to change a bit. Lot of wasted effort and mythology if it didn't matter to the story a bit. You could have gotten the characters there without that; can make the Wildlings assholes and the struggle is about the same. Just a letdown.
Not having read the books, I can't say for sure whether or not that's what was happening, but my interpretation based on what he's said and on the things I've read about the series is that people misinterpreted what his 'endgame' is as far as the battle with the Others (White Walkers) in relation to the War of the Five Kings and the quest for the Iron Throne is concerned, especially since we know that, while the specifics might differ, the general outline for the ending of the television series is going to be the same as that of the novels.
I think much of the reason this took place at night is that it makes the CGI easier to do. Bright, out in the open action has to be rendered perfect. Make it night and bad weather, you can cut some corners and hide any shortcuts. That's why the T-Rex scene in JPark was in the rain at night.
Entertainingly, I missed the first couple minutes because DirecTV Now app is garbage and wouldn’t let me load up the episode. I was a couple min late, so didn’t want the live feed. Had to settle for that when it would let load the full episode.
That said, trying to watch it again right now and the room is just too bright. At night, with lights off, could see a little. Can see almost nothing right now in a normally sunlight room (no glare on the tv, just daylight in room)
I get that dark covers bad cgi, but still a waste of money if you can’t make out the dodgy cgi at all. Gotta be a happy medium.
That said, trying to watch it again right now and the room is just too bright. At night, with lights off, could see a little. Can see almost nothing right now in a normally sunlight room (no glare on the tv, just daylight in room)
I get that dark covers bad cgi, but still a waste of money if you can’t make out the dodgy cgi at all. Gotta be a happy medium.
Not sure I can agree. For one, this episode did show the undead to be a major force. They were unstoppable. They crushed the army, broke through the defenses that were set on fire, overran the walls, poured into Winterfell and killed everything they touched. In fact, they did win. The ONLY reason that the good guys won is because Arya managed the 1 in a million death blow and killed the Night King literally at the last minute.
Second, the show is called Game of Thrones. So, while the undead were a looming threat, ultimately, the fight for the Iron Throne and the fight with Cersei needed to be the central theme. It's what the show is really about in the end. So, it makes perfect sense to finish the show by focusing on Cersei on the Iron Throne.
People have raised the point elsewhere that GRRM is a big Tolkien fan, and in both The Hobbit and LOTR, after what seems like the primary antagonist is defeated (Smaug and Sauron respectively) there's another five chapters dealing with the aftermath. These aren't even just slowly-paced epilogues - they both involve the resolution of further conflict and big battles. So structurally speaking it would make total sense for him to set up his own epic the same way.
I'm not going to say it was bad but it was severely underwhelming. Frankly, it was a disappointment.
The good first. Lyanna's death scene is the most bad ass thing I've seen in a long time.
Now the bad. It was so dark I could barely make out what was happening for most of the episode. It was really frustrating and I admit I became bored. The climax to the Night King's storyline is that he waited a thousand years to die like a chump an hour after battle commenced. Okay. That was a waste of 8 seasons of buildup. Jon Snow didn't even get to kill him despite his life revolving around the army of dead for the entirety of the series. Oh, and both he and Danerys were absolutely useless throughout the battle. I didn't care about any of the main characters who died apart from Jorah, who appeared out of nowhere suddenly to save Danerys. Melisandre lived hundreds of years so she'd be there to give Arya a pep talk and light some stuff? Bran couldn't tell Theon to hang on an extra minute since Arya was on her way to take out Frost Face? I could go on but suffice to say it was not the epic showdown I expected.
It's a well acted and often brilliantly written series but Season 8 has not been worth the long wait. I don't hold out much hope for a satisfying conclusion. In fact, I think Cersei is going to end the series as ruler of the seven kingdoms because she's played the game better than everyone else.
The good first. Lyanna's death scene is the most bad ass thing I've seen in a long time.
Now the bad. It was so dark I could barely make out what was happening for most of the episode. It was really frustrating and I admit I became bored. The climax to the Night King's storyline is that he waited a thousand years to die like a chump an hour after battle commenced. Okay. That was a waste of 8 seasons of buildup. Jon Snow didn't even get to kill him despite his life revolving around the army of dead for the entirety of the series. Oh, and both he and Danerys were absolutely useless throughout the battle. I didn't care about any of the main characters who died apart from Jorah, who appeared out of nowhere suddenly to save Danerys. Melisandre lived hundreds of years so she'd be there to give Arya a pep talk and light some stuff? Bran couldn't tell Theon to hang on an extra minute since Arya was on her way to take out Frost Face? I could go on but suffice to say it was not the epic showdown I expected.
It's a well acted and often brilliantly written series but Season 8 has not been worth the long wait. I don't hold out much hope for a satisfying conclusion. In fact, I think Cersei is going to end the series as ruler of the seven kingdoms because she's played the game better than everyone else.
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