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Case dismissed! Discovery and Tardigrade game "not similar"

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Alright, cool it please.
All cool. That post was intended to signify that I won't be baited. Being new to this thread, I now realize it's pretty hot-button, but I'm not taking anything personally or intending anything to be taken that way.

As a rule, the internet's interpretation of "fair use" is wrong.

I've stated before that Steve Shives is one of the few Trek vloggers I like. I always find his Janeway takes to be really entertaining, even if I don't always agree with them. He pretty much sticks to just using screen caps, but none the less should the choose to, Paramount or CBS or even Kate would all be within their right to tell him to take it down.

And any slippy slope to be had here, is a letter of the law/spirit of the law argument.
That's true in the sense that most uses of copyrighted video don't qualify, which is largely why the automated process to detect them exists in the first place. But we aren't talking about most uses here, so that isn't appropriate, especially given that in this context, courts definitively ruled in favor of "the internet's interpretation" in 2017. Steve Shives, and even toxic examples that were brought up in this thread, are textbook examples of fair use, so CBS wouldn't have any valid claim. The distinction between "letter" and "spirit" is exactly the kind of thing that automated processes fail at, which is why that process has been so widely abused, a problem which YouTube themselves are sensitive to. The trouble is, it's a very difficult problem to solve while still fulfilling their own legal responsibilities, because of the sheer volume of videos.
 
The trick with this lawsuit (and in the case of Discovery I'm not wholly convinced that they aren't in the wrong, certainly my general feeling has been that Season 2 has spent a lot of time trying to crabwalk away from/nullify all the things that the premise has in common with the videogame, so I suspect the showrunners know they're on thin ice), is the can of worms it re-opens about other shows. I can imagine the rights holders of Babylon 5 re-prosecuting the case against DS9, and I've always felt like Voyager bore some uncanny similarities to the 1980s Fighting Fantasy game book 'Starship Traveller'. Shold this lawsuit be successful, I could certainly see those ones being revisited.
 
The trick with this lawsuit (and in the case of Discovery I'm not wholly convinced that they aren't in the wrong, certainly my general feeling has been that Season 2 has spent a lot of time trying to crabwalk away from/nullify all the things that the premise has in common with the videogame, so I suspect the showrunners know they're on thin ice), is the can of worms it re-opens about other shows. I can imagine the rights holders of Babylon 5 re-prosecuting the case against DS9, and I've always felt like Voyager bore some uncanny similarities to the 1980s Fighting Fantasy game book 'Starship Traveller'. Shold this lawsuit be successful, I could certainly see those ones being revisited.

But the production/television companies that made Babylon 5 and Voyager no longer exist, so there would be no one to sue.
 
The trick with this lawsuit (and in the case of Discovery I'm not wholly convinced that they aren't in the wrong, certainly my general feeling has been that Season 2 has spent a lot of time trying to crabwalk away from/nullify all the things that the premise has in common with the videogame, so I suspect the showrunners know they're on thin ice), is the can of worms it re-opens about other shows.

What things did they walk away from? According to the lawsuit, the character similarities are still there, the uniforms remain the same, and the spore drive still remain. The tardigrade was gone in the first season and they weren't going to revisit it (as it'll create further canon issues with reproducible dna manipulation)
 
But the production/television companies that made Babylon 5 and Voyager no longer exist, so there would be no one to sue.

That is not how it works. The rights are owned by someone, and they also acquired any liabilities. In Voyagers case it is CBS, not sure who owns Babylon 5 now.
 
The trick with this lawsuit (and in the case of Discovery I'm not wholly convinced that they aren't in the wrong, certainly my general feeling has been that Season 2 has spent a lot of time trying to crabwalk away from/nullify all the things that the premise has in common with the videogame, so I suspect the showrunners know they're on thin ice), is the can of worms it re-opens about other shows. I can imagine the rights holders of Babylon 5 re-prosecuting the case against DS9, and I've always felt like Voyager bore some uncanny similarities to the 1980s Fighting Fantasy game book 'Starship Traveller'. Shold this lawsuit be successful, I could certainly see those ones being revisited.
THERE IS NO VIDEO GAME.
God I wish folks would pay more attention.

All Abdin has, even at this point, is a bunch of ideas FOR a Video Game.
And several Yt videos that he has thrown together that imagines what the EVENTUAL game will look like.
(and at this point, I'm beginning to think he may never actualy create a playable game)

Also, just to note, each time he has done a Yt video, he has changed aspects of his original ideas in order to bring them closer to what he is suing CBS about.
His last "update" even contained some.., let's say, 'exaggerations' ... about how the Judge has already ruled in his favor.
:rolleyes:

As for Babylon-5, Strazynski himself said years ago that suing over the similarities between Bab-5 & DS-9 would be a waste of everyone's time and money.
That's why he never pursued it.
 
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That is not how it works. The rights are owned by someone, and they also acquired any liabilities. In Voyagers case it is CBS, not sure who owns Babylon 5 now.

If that’s the case, I would think that CBS (or anyone in this situation) would have measures in place to deal with any kind of liability issues.
 
^^^
Yes,they do. its called "Having Legal Counsel on a retainer...."

I was thinking more like a petty cash fund, with the emphasis on ‘petty,’ i.e. “Here’s $100,000 to drop your stupid lawsuit about a show made 20 years ago; now get the fuck out of my face.”
 
I was thinking more like a petty cash fund, with the emphasis on ‘petty,’ i.e. “Here’s $100,000 to drop your stupid lawsuit about a show made 20 years ago; now get the fuck out of my face.”
No, (especially if you're a large studio) you don't do that because it jnust puts a target on your back that you're an 'easy mark' that will pay out. You spend that $100,000 on legal staff and retainers to make court life miserable/ a PITA and a lot of work for those attempting to sue you, so that others don't.

You only pay when you know it's going bad; OR it has a substantial positive effect on some bottom line.
 
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The trick with this lawsuit (and in the case of Discovery I'm not wholly convinced that they aren't in the wrong, certainly my general feeling has been that Season 2 has spent a lot of time trying to crabwalk away from/nullify all the things that the premise has in common with the videogame, so I suspect the showrunners know they're on thin ice), is the can of worms it re-opens about other shows. I can imagine the rights holders of Babylon 5 re-prosecuting the case against DS9, and I've always felt like Voyager bore some uncanny similarities to the 1980s Fighting Fantasy game book 'Starship Traveller'. Shold this lawsuit be successful, I could certainly see those ones being revisited.

Between bigger companies, stuff like that simply gets solved behind the scenes. Funny tidbit: Big Hollywood studios never sue each other over sound-effects. Because in the early days of cinema, no one kept track of who created which sounds, and Hollywood uses the same sound effects since that time (the famous Wilhelm's scream, or the eagle scream in Westerns) - everyone is aware they are probably using sound effects that technically belong to other companies, but it would cost too much to create completely new libraries for sound designers. So if there are any egregious examples (like a company creating a specific and unique sound effect for a new movie, and that sound effect then suddenly popping up in another movie) - they handle that stuff completely behind the scenes - "this is our soundeffect, here is an agreement for you using it once in that movie you already used it in, please throw it out of your library and never use it again". Case closed, no press release, crickets to the public.

As for this case - Abedin simply doesn't have these back-channels, and also apparently waay overplayed his hands (or, more likely, his lawyer - as a normal person it's damn hard to find even a half-decent lawyer!). I still think it looks very, very much like they lifted the Tardigrade idea almost directly from his trailers - could have been an intern making a mood chart or anything, really. But the rest of the product - despite some very obvious (SF trope) similarities - is clearly distinct, and the Tardigrad appeared ony in a handfull of episodes. So even if I still think he should be compensated - it's not going to be any more of a deal than DIS paying to use David Bowies "Space Odditiy" in one episode. And his Tardigrade definitely isn't as big a deal as David Bowie.
 
Between bigger companies, stuff like that simply gets solved behind the scenes. Funny tidbit: Big Hollywood studios never sue each other over sound-effects. Because in the early days of cinema, no one kept track of who created which sounds, and Hollywood uses the same sound effects since that time (the famous Wilhelm's scream, or the eagle scream in Westerns) - everyone is aware they are probably using sound effects that technically belong to other companies, but it would cost too much to create completely new libraries for sound designers. So if there are any egregious examples (like a company creating a specific and unique sound effect for a new movie, and that sound effect then suddenly popping up in another movie) - they handle that stuff completely behind the scenes - "this is our soundeffect, here is an agreement for you using it once in that movie you already used it in, please throw it out of your library and never use it again". Case closed, no press release, crickets to the public.

As for this case - Abedin simply doesn't have these back-channels, and also apparently waay overplayed his hands (or, more likely, his lawyer - as a normal person it's damn hard to find even a half-decent lawyer!). I still think it looks very, very much like they lifted the Tardigrade idea almost directly from his trailers - could have been an intern making a mood chart or anything, really. But the rest of the product - despite some very obvious (SF trope) similarities - is clearly distinct, and the Tardiigrade appeared only in a handful of episodes. So even if I still think he should be compensated - it's not going to be any more of a deal than DIS paying to use David Bowies "Space Odditiy" in one episode. And his Tardigrade definitely isn't as big a deal as David Bowie.
You're making a pretty big assumption there.
As of yet, there's no proof that anybody at CBS knew about Abdin's proposal for his game or were even members of STEAM when that contest was active.
I went specifically searching for his STEAM proposal when all this first became notable and it took me several days and a lot of back tracking to find it.
(even now it's a pretty obscure item that has almost fallen off the search function of STEAM)

That contest apparently had over 100k entries and his wasn't anywhere near the top of the list.
It actually just barely got enough votes to be moved to the "Viable" category and be listed as something to watch.
(even then it was not in the top 1000 entries)

Also, it has been several years since he began creating ideas and entered his proposal, at this point the best he has to show for it is a few demo Yt videos with constantly changing game parameters, and a poorly advised lawsuit.

That doesn't add up to a lot of weight on his side of the scales of justice.
Even David at least had a rock to throw at Goliath in that battle, all Abdin has is the blessings of a few dozen DISCOVERY haters and a growing list of court/lawyer fees.
(and as we've recently seen, his income has apparently been severely curtailed)
:shrug:
 
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The trick with this lawsuit (and in the case of Discovery I'm not wholly convinced that they aren't in the wrong, certainly my general feeling has been that Season 2 has spent a lot of time trying to crabwalk away from/nullify all the things that the premise has in common with the videogame, so I suspect the showrunners know they're on thin ice),

Yeah no, that's not why.
 
No, (especially if you're a large studio) you don't do that because it jnust puts a target on your back that you're an 'easy mark' that will pay out. You spend that $100,000 on legal staff and retainers to make court life miserable/ a PITA and a lot of work for those attempting to sue you, so that others don't.

You only pay when you know it's going bad; OR it has a substantial positive effect on some bottom line.
Allowing a case to go to trial, especially if it is over a dispute over a few thousand dollars, and losing, puts an even bigger target on your back not to mention the dent it will put in your bank account.

It's a balancing act. These things have to be dealt with on a case by case basis, but a policy of never settling cases like these is eventually going to cost you.
You only pay when you know it's going bad; OR it has a substantial positive effect on some bottom line.
Not always true. Sometimes a case should be settled BEFORE it actually goes bad. If for some reason the judge decides not to dismiss Abdin's case, that will instantly increase the value of his case which means settling it becomes that much more expensive. Sometimes stuff happens that doesn't hurt your position, but does strengthen these the position of your opponent.

Sometimes you take the deal, not necessarily because your position is not strong, and not because it's it's "cheap", but because it's never going to be cheaper.
 
From the public court documents I've been able to find so far, the plaintiffs lawyer has only been able to name ONE person who actually had a STEAM account that worked on DISCOVERY.
Unfortunately, there are two problems with that discovery...

1) The person named didn't setup a STEAM account till well after the contest was cancelled.
2) That same person didn't start to work on DISCOVERY till a year after the show was already in production and therefore had no input about the Tardigrade use in the show.

From what I can find online to date, it appears that no other writs were submitted to the Judge by Abdin's lawyer either just before or after the March 19th cutoff date.
So I can't confirm if they were able to identify anybody else as a possible candidate.
 
You're making a pretty big assumption there.
As of yet, there's no proof that anybody at CBS knew about Abdin's proposal for his game or were even members of STEAM when that contest was active.
From the public court documents I've been able to find so far, the plaintiffs lawyer has only been able to name ONE person who actually had a STEAM account that worked on DISCOVERY.
So I can't confirm if they were able to identify anybody else as a possible candidate.

Which is a completely ridiculous burden to put on the plaintiff anyway. If it was publicly accessible, it was publicly accessible. Period.

If somebody broke into my house, stole a statue, and the next day my neighbour had the exact same statue in his house - the Police wouldn't ask me to prove how my neighbour could have accessed my property and demand I present the crowbar he used myself! They would take a fucking look at the statue, see if it has the same marks, and if so, ask the guy to produce a receipt from where he got it.

The fact that CBS has been absolutely shielded from providing even the smallest hint of how they came up with the sparkling FTL-Tardigrade is the thing that makes me suspicious. Especially since such a design document should be an absolute cake-walk to produce if they truly developed and iterated the idea themselves. That instead the plaintiff has to provide the complete Internet search history of every employee of a multi-million dollar company is some grade A bullshit.
 
The fact that CBS has been absolutely shielded from providing even the smallest hint of how they came up with the sparkling FTL-Tardigrade is the thing that makes me suspicious. Especially since such a design document should be an absolute cake-walk to produce if they truly developed and iterated the idea themselves.

You don't think they could come up with that if asked? They could whip one up in ten minutes. In a world of seven billion people, similar ideas come up all the time. When the similarities between his product and Discovery are so vague, why shouldn't he have to provide some kind of proof that CBS stole his idea? He is the plaintiff, that is his responsibility under the law.
 
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