Calypso was written by previous show runners, right? It wouldn’t be the worst plot hole this season for some of the “facts” to not line up.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Even if they don't go back in time from Discovery's present to fix things, they effectively will stop Control, as if they can find some way to ensure it can't get the Sphere data in the 23rd century it won't exist any longer in the 28th or elsewhere. Which actually might mean any earlier temporal incursions it made are butterflied away, which may affect the past to some degree as well.
Calypso was not written by Berg/Harberts. It was mostly written by Michael Chabon (now writing for the Picard show) with some story input by Sean Cochran (who wrote Despite Yourself in the first season, but apparently is no longer part of Discovery's writing staff).
We do know that Chabon basically picked 1,000 years in the future on a whim, though he asked the showrunners if they were okay with it. So there was no "wider plan" for the short at that time.
"And so it was that the Enemies of Michael and all who had wished for one breath of the holy sweat of the torn shirt of Captain Kirk had been driven from the high places of fan theories, one after another. And the Youtubers smote at Michael and her unforgivable Michaelness. And they resisted being torn from their place of retreat, even as Connolly died for their sins and Midnight's Edge proved dull to the touch.
"And it seemed to them, among those of their ilk deemed wise, that a giant and powerful Reset Button must exist in the near future. This hope the last of the true believers began to cherish in their hearts as unto a sacred flame coaxed from an undying coal, and it seemed no more unreasonable to them than angels flying on threads of fungi, nor mystic bark adorning an undead screaming physician. And chanted they 'Reset Button.. Reset Button.. Reset Button' from the lowest quarters of youtube, from the filthiest alleys of Reddit and even in the lofty agora of TrekBBS did the Faithful chant 'Reset Button.' But of it they searched and found so sign, nor did the Spirit of Gene harken to them, for he was really seriously dead by that point. The all seeing eye of CBS looked down upon them neither with pity nor with mirth. Instead it counted its subscription fees, dealt in a noble manner with Netflix, and ordered the next season of Discovery"
Annals of the Albino, from the TV room at Boreth Monastery
"And it seemed to them, among those of their ilk deemed wise, that a giant and powerful Reset Button must exist in the near future. This hope the last of the true believers began to cherish in their hearts as unto a sacred flame coaxed from an undying coal, and it seemed no more unreasonable to them than angels flying on threads of fungi, nor mystic bark adorning an undead screaming physician. And chanted they 'Reset Button.. Reset Button.. Reset Button' from the lowest quarters of youtube, from the filthiest alleys of Reddit and even in the lofty agora of TrekBBS did the Faithful chant 'Reset Button.' But of it they searched and found so sign, nor did the Spirit of Gene harken to them, for he was really seriously dead by that point. The all seeing eye of CBS looked down upon them neither with pity nor with mirth. Instead it counted its subscription fees, dealt in a noble manner with Netflix, and ordered the next season of Discovery"
Annals of the Albino, from the TV room at Boreth Monastery
I'm wondering if something screwy will happen when they attempt to jump Discovery to the future. If Zora's been waiting 1,000 years for her crew to return, then that means she's been floating around since the 16th/17th century. Which COULD signal that Discovery goes back in time... and all it takes is ONE Section 31 ship making it through the wormhole into a certain area known as the Delta Quadrant to set up the creation of the Borg. This would line up (maybe a little off) for the time the Vaadwaur were unconcerned about a little annoyance known as the Borg.
Watching it now.
My mouth when I just saw the Enterprise's bridge for the first time:
Never thought I'd go nuts over a Connie bridge.
My mouth when I just saw the Enterprise's bridge for the first time:
Never thought I'd go nuts over a Connie bridge.
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Gonzo
Guest
That is what I am trying to point out but some seem to think I am attacking the show and reacting accordingly.
Stopping the AI in the way that they say they are going to is the same thing as removing it because the only reason the AI exists in the present is because of the actions of the AI in the future but if there is no AI in the future the whole loop collapses.
The AI will not exist in the future which means the actions it has taken that are visible to us in the present will be undone (the probe for instance), like they never happened at all.
The AI originates in the future not in the present, its only here in the present due to sending the probe back in time which compromised Airiam and corrupted Control, if the AI originated in the present then you would be correct that messing with the future would not have any effect on the now but its origin is in the future and that is a problem.
If it is removed from the future then any effect it had on the present will also be undone.
I will happily watch the show regardless of what does or does not happen.
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Gonzo
Guest
Yes I see the problem, you latched onto the Klingon War because I used it as an example of what could be changed by messing with the timeline, you assumed that I was just trying to start up the whole prime universe vs alternate universe crap-shoot again which was not my intention, this has nothing to do with it being PU or not everything I have talked about can easily be contained within the PU with no need for any others.
Its not a keystone its just one of a sequence of major events that Burnham will have the power to change now that she has the suit, as @Mr Awe has rightly stated Burnham could easily end up anywhere and anytime.
At the time I thought Kelsey Grammar was being introduced to start a Star Trek spin off.
Wow, over reaction! I didn't tell him to stop watching. He indicated that he probably wouldn't like a Pike show with the current showrunners. I was actually agreeing with him! Given his comments about Discovery and the showrunners, he probably really would not like a Pike series made by the same people. I did suggest that he might not want to watch because, shoot, as he said, he probably won't like it. I didn't tell him not to--as if I had any power over what he'll do.Just from this thread and the past couple days:
Implying that he's mentally challenged. And don't tell me you weren't, because you can click the link and check the context.
Telling him to stop watching.
Telling him he's whining.
Telling him he's whining and having a meltdown.
You can disagree with his opinion, but don't tell him to stop watching the show or commenting. We're not going to shut down dissenting opinions here.
Now, I'm shutting down your dissenting opinion.This is not a back and forth conversation. PM me if you absolutely must argue the point.
So, "whining" is an insult? Wow.
And, no, I never suggested ever that he was mentally challenged. Never. I clicked the link and nope. I've actually agreed with him on a number of things in the past as well. For instance, we both LOVE TOS. Now, he did say some fans were "special." In that vein, my comment was about his strong opinion against the show. It takes a special sort of fan to watch a show they dislike so much. That is anyone's prerogative. It was not an insult. If you had asked me about it, or BillJ for that matter, I could've explained. Instead you jumped to conclusions, which I'll note you have done before as a moderator about the usage of certain words with other posters (not me). But, I respect BillJ. We have had debates and disagreements but also agreements on various things over several years.
Well, observe his language in his response to me. Totally uncalled for and it sure appeared like a meltdown. I actually had a very measured reply given what he said.
I will *NOT* be forced to PM you. If you wanted a PM exchange, you should have initiated a conversation in that manner. Instead, you *publically* commented and attributed false words and motives to me. I have the right to respond to your public accusations in a similarly public manner. You are the one who started this as a public exchange rather than a private one. That's on you--not me. It's inappropriate of you to suggest that I can't publically defend myself.
However, I do apologize to everyone else in this thread for this interruption. That certainly was not my intention. *I* am going back to talking about Discovery. For everyone's sake, I won't be discussing this matter any more.
I wish they still would.
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Gonzo
Guest
Exactly, it would have huge ramifications for what we have seen in this season.
That is assuming the changes that occur stop there and Burnham does not end up in other time periods as well altering events there as well.
I'm guessing that will be the twist at the end. I'm also trying to guess what timeframe Discovery could end up in that would produce shock value? Modern day. Super far in the future? Way back in the past? Not sure but something that would be instantly recognizable in a reveal scene at the end.
Again, there are lots of little tells this season which make me think we're seeing a TL reset. Things like the "power of a supernova" line in The Red Angel, Control admitting that it was advanced due to the Klingon War, that sort of thing. But the Time Crystal being a one-shot device according to this episode suggests otherwise. They have a big battle, jump to the future, and are done.
Perhaps though they jump forward to the future, and for some reason that's not enough, and they still find a lifeless galaxy. Michael somehow (don't ask me how - maybe with the remnants of her mother's suit, maybe she jumps to Boreth, etc) gets the future suit working again, engages in one final jump, and fixes everything.
Perhaps though they jump forward to the future, and for some reason that's not enough, and they still find a lifeless galaxy. Michael somehow (don't ask me how - maybe with the remnants of her mother's suit, maybe she jumps to Boreth, etc) gets the future suit working again, engages in one final jump, and fixes everything.
There's still 2 signals to go.
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Gonzo
Guest
I honestly don't know about that either, first you have Pike dragging it out and then you have Saru himself deferring the decision until later.
It was a bit odd when you consider that Starfleet is all about chain of command, it makes me think that it will either be Burnham or an irrelevant question after the events of next weeks episode.
She had her shot at captaincy downgraded way back in the pilot. Tilly may still be captain before her. But I agree Saru is still hesitating and they may leave that until into season 3 before actually going there.
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Gonzo
Guest
After the comments made by the show runners and what I saw in this episode I think it could go in any number of different ways and a reset is one of them if they do successfully undo the AI in the future and by extension all of its actions in the present.
If not then Burnham ends up in an era other than the one she hoped which could potentially cause even more changes.
You *could* be right. But, now they have an alternative power source than a super nova.
However, I do like your suggestion for a possible reveal at the very end of the season. Imagine if they do jump to the 28th century and it is a barren, lifeless place. That could be interesting and, admittedly, open the door to more time traveling and possible reset.
Still, I'm hoping they don't go the reset route and I'm thinking that they won't. But, we'll find out in a week!
