Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"

[Campe]

Also, they are all actors who would do a TV show for 5 or so years (since they've all been part of TV series in the past). What I mean is, most likely none of them are the Michelle Forbes type who wouldn't want to be tied down to a series.

And Mount, Romijn and Peck have already shown some serious reverence to Star Trek. Mount is a fan. Romijn has suggested she watched the show growing up with her mom. Peck has met with Adam Nimoy and Terry Farrell to get Nimoy's family's blessing. Now, the last one might be a studio mandate, but it looks good. And that they've been very hush hush and have deferred a lot of discussion about what is happening makes me think something is in the works. You don't get a recognizable genre face like Rebecca Romijn for a few relatively minor scenes across three episodes.

 

[Gonzo]

Also, they are all actors who would do a TV show for 5 or so years (since they've all been part of TV series in the past). What I mean is, most likely none of them are the Michelle Forbes type who wouldn't want to be tied down to a series.

Many actors love getting a stable show under their belt, its regular money after all.

It really depends on what they are looking for though.

 

[Longinus]

I really don't get the love for this episode. I was mostly bored. There were some good character scenes, but there was just too much of the melodrama that it got tiresome.

And sorry, but the plot is just stupid. Technobabble not making sense is small beans, but the basic logic just is so weak and convoluted. Not being to able to destroy one ship just doesn't hold up as a dilemma. We all know that usually the problem is trying to stop the ship from being destroyed, they're pretty easy to break. Oh no, shields! How lame. Just keep shooting! Or if you for some reason don't want to do that, how about breaking the warp core and other power generators? Try raising shields now! And it is not like they were in any hurry. They had the spore drive (until they decided to drain it for their illogical and needless plan) they could have evaded the S31 ships pretty much indefinitely.

And the crew just joining Burnham on this suicide mission (except Tyler, who supposedly loves her) makes no sense. What the fuck is this going to accomplish, and why would Pike ever allow it?

This is like S1 finale, they just need to wrap up their nonsensical plot quickly so they do it in nonsensical way so that they get their pieces in the place for the next season, presumably for more nonsense.

Oh, and sure ships move at the speed of plot, but if you're trying to create suspense by the enemy approaching, then you just cant have Sarek waltz in an out like he was operating in completely different timescale.

This season was so promising, most of it was good. But again their 'big plot' just doesn't hold up. I am very disappointed.

I take my comments on the Enterprise to the dedicated thread.

 

[cultcross]

Also, they are all actors who would do a TV show for 5 or so years (since they've all been part of TV series in the past). What I mean is, most likely none of them are the Michelle Forbes type who wouldn't want to be tied down to a series.

Times have changed anyway since DS9's premiere. Back then, doing TV meant you didn't do movies and was kind of seen as "lesser", but that weird separation has gone away now. Lots of big names do TV and lots of TV actors do big films.

 

[Rahul]

Also, they are all actors who would do a TV show for 5 or so years (since they've all been part of TV series in the past). What I mean is, most likely none of them are the Michelle Forbes type who wouldn't want to be tied down to a series.

Exactly! Also, it probably helps a lot that they were cast with the intention of being the main characters, not a main character being introduced into an already existing ensemble.

Also, prestige tv now has a much, much better reputation now than back then. In fact, better than some big movies in fact, since the actors have more control over the character, but not as tight a schedule as in the past where they had to squeeze 25 episodes out every year.

 

[cultcross]

This season was so promising, most of it was good. But again their 'big plot' just doesn't hold up. I am very disappointed.

That's pretty much how I feel about this season. It's another failure to plot out a coherent story that doesn't rely on contrivances and technobabble. A real shame given the episodes up to and including If Memory Serves.

Control's motivation makes no sense, it is clearly already conscious, and the "plans" the crew have come up with lately are magnificently illogical. And it's all built on such a weight of technobabble that the story groans under it.

I enjoy many of the individual scenes and performances in the last few episodes, but the story is just... not there.

 

[Rahul]

I really don't get the love for this episode. I was mostly bored. There were some good character scenes, but there was just too much of the melodrama that it got tiresome.

And sorry, but the plot is just stupid. Technobabble not making sense is small beans, but the basic logic just is so weak and convoluted. Not being to able to destroy one ship just doesn't hold up as a dilemma. We all know that usually the problem is trying to stop the ship from being destroyed, they're pretty easy to break. Oh no, shields! How lame. Just keep shooting! Or if you for some reason don't want to do that, how about breaking the warp core and other power generators? Try raising shields now! And it is not like they were in any hurry. They had the spore drive (until they decided to drain it for their illogical and needless plan) they could have evaded the S31 ships pretty much indefinitely.

And the crew just joining Burnham on this suicide mission (except Tyler, who supposedly loves her) makes no sense. What the fuck is this going to accomplish, and why would Pike ever allow it?

This is like S1 finale, they just need to wrap up their nonsensical plot quickly so they do it in nonsensical way so that they get their pieces in the place for the next season, presumably for more nonsense.

Oh, and sure ships move at the speed of plot, but if you're trying to create suspense by the enemy approaching, then you just cant have Sarek waltz in an out like he was operating in completely different timescale.

This season was so promising, most of it was good. But again their 'big plot' just doesn't hold up. I am very disappointed.

I take my comments on the Enterprise to the dedicated thread.

I feel ya'!
Yes, the "plot" (=technobabble exposition for franchise management) was utterly dumb to non-existent.

I think the appreciation comes from two things:

1. The character work. Either you're into it at this point, or not. I also thought it was overly melodramatic to almost being soap-y. But at this point, I'm into the characters of this show. And many of the interactions were pretty good this episode
2. The TOS Enterprise being presented on the silver tablet in all it's glory. Either this get's ya' (like that Talos episode), or not. It got me. Not necessary to want an entire series out of it. But for a single episode, that was pretty amazing.

 

[BillJ]

This is like S1 finale, they just need to wrap up their nonsensical plot quickly so they do it in nonsensical way so that they get their pieces in the place for the next season, presumably for more nonsense.

It seems like there was enough time for them to smooth over rough edges even with a change in showrunners. I have a tough time figuring out what is going on in the writer's room on this show.

Oh, and sure ships move at the speed of plot, but if you're trying to create suspense by the enemy approaching, then you just cant have Sarek waltz in an out like he was operating in completely different timescale.

That was seriously odd. Because if Sarek knew what was going on, he could've brought Starfleet with him to combat Section 31. And if Earth or Vulcan was that close, the Enterprise and Discovery could've headed straight to Earth/Vulcan and the Fleet.

The entire season has been seriously disjointed. Where any kind of logic has been completely thrown out the window.

 

[XCV330]

The odds of a randomly chosen starship sized point in a galaxy being inside a star are very very low. It would certainly be less risky than the plan they are actually going with!
I wouldn't put it past control to develop its own spore drive though, the research must be somewhere.

They were never able to navigate using whatever computer system both Glenn and Discovery had tried. Maybe that's the data on the sphere that Control needs.

 

[Amaris]

Everybody knew that - the characters not anticipating it kind of makes them look dumb.

In fairness, they haven't watched nearly as much Star Trek as we have.

 

[Gonzo]

Exactly! Also, it probably helps a lot that they were cast with the intention of being the main characters, not a main character being introduced into an already existing ensemble.

Also, prestige tv now has a much, much better reputation now than back then. In fact, better than some big movies in fact, since the actors have more control over the character, but not as tight a schedule as in the past where they had to squeeze 25 episodes out every year.

One of the main issues that actors have had when switching to a 20-25 episode a year TV show is the working hours required to film it and the pay difference.

That has somewhat changed especially on platforms like Netflix with shorter seasons and ultimately better pay and conditions.

Also they would have been told in advance there would be the potential for a full series which would look good on their resumes, especially as its a marquee series with a huge fan base around the world.

This could be the big break they need.

 

[eschaton]

Please, please let this be an end to Burnham/Tyler. Nothing about their 'relationship' ever felt genuine and referring back to it is really getting tiresome. I had to look away as she turned back around for one last embrace/snog.

I was cheering internally at the thought this might be almost the end of having to see Ash - or at least Ash interact with Michael. He kinda suggested to Pike he had some sort of weird-ass plan, meaning I'm hoping he makes a heroic sacrifice and I won't even have to deal with him on the Section 31 show.

I found it super-odd that Pike had no issue with a bunch of qualified officers ditching Starfleet/Federation while there are still Section 31/Control attempting to take over the 23rd century.

Blood for the bloo...err...arc god.

What was the deal with that Georgiou dialogue to Pike as he beamed away, where she IDed herself as Terran from the Mirror Universe? What was the point of saying that? I didn't get that at all...

Breaking the fourth wall for the sake of "teh fans."

And sorry, but the plot is just stupid. Technobabble not making sense is small beans, but the basic logic just is so weak and convoluted. Not being to able to destroy one ship just doesn't hold up as a dilemma. We all know that usually the problem is trying to stop the ship from being destroyed, they're pretty easy to break. Oh no, shields! How lame. Just keep shooting! Or if you for some reason don't want to do that, how about breaking the warp core and other power generators? Try raising shields now! And it is not like they were in any hurry. They had the spore drive (until they decided to drain it for their illogical and needless plan) they could have evaded the S31 ships pretty much indefinitely.

I was wondering why they didn't just crash it into a star - or even an asteroid.

And once again, since they used the spore drive, I wondered why the hell they've forgotten they can literally go anywhere, to alternate universes, and apparently can travel through time just fine with it. I mean, I don't think the Section 31 ships could even get to the Delta Quadrant, unless they have whatever drive Sarek's shuttlecraft uses.

 

[Gonzo]

That's pretty much how I feel about this season. It's another failure to plot out a coherent story that doesn't rely on contrivances and technobabble. A real shame given the episodes up to and including If Memory Serves.

Control's motivation makes no sense, it is clearly already conscious, and the "plans" the crew have come up with lately are magnificently illogical. And it's all built on such a weight of technobabble that the story groans under it.

I enjoy many of the individual scenes and performances in the last few episodes, but the story is just... not there.

I have been ok with it myself as I see it as a righting of the ship after the problems of season one, made worse by the actions of Berg and Harberts during season two.

In view of that I can understand that a few things may not line up quite as precisely as some would like.

 

[ITDUDE]

Expect 7 seasons.

Lol, no.

 

[Lokiberry]

This was so awesome! The Enterprise bridge looked amazing. I don't think I can stand waiting for next week.

Also, do you guys remember Andromeda? It was based on an idea Gene Roddenberry had about a ship from a Federation like society thrown far into the future where there has been a civil war and order has collapsed. The ships computer was also a sentient A I. Do you guys think that's what's planned for Disco S03?

 

[Sakonna]

I have a tough time figuring out what is going on in the writer's room on this show.

I suspect that is something you have in common with the writers themselves.

 

[Rahul]

One of the main issues that actors have had when switching to a 20-25 episode a year TV show is the working hours required to film it and the pay difference.

That has somewhat changed especially on platforms like Netflix with shorter seasons and ultimately better pay and conditions.

Also they would have been told in advance there would be the potential for a full series which would look good on their resumes, especially as its a marquee series with a huge fan base around the world.

This could be the big break they need.

Absolutely. 15 episodes over one-and-a-half year, with continuous character development and arcs is simply a completely different beast than 25 episodes every year with static characters that have a single "spotlight"-episode once in a while.

For actors - modern television really is the goal in itself, instead of "just" being a steady paycheck. Hell, it even leaves them enough time to take on other roles, gues appearences in other shows or movie roles as well. Something that was utterly impossible with a television schedule in the 90s.

 

[Mr Awe]

They repeatedly mention the undetonated torpedo in Enterprise's hull in the future visions.
Calling it now. That torpedo will be the catalyst to get Spock off Discovery in a last ditch effort to disarm or "perform surgery" on it..

Either that, or its the delivery mechanism to get Spock to the Enterprise for some other reason.

 

[eschaton]

Not sure if this is the place to put this, but I really think that - if the Pike show is a go and a big hit - the chances of Discovery getting a fourth season are pretty low. By that point they're going to have several other Trek series in production - series which likely won't have the same production/arc issues Discovery has had due to the revolving door of showrunners. They can find some sort of contrivance to bring the fan favorites "home" and distribute them in the Pike show and Section 31 show as needed. But Michael's story in particular is only going to have three chapters, and a fixed ending. Indeed, the jump to the future (something which seemingly has been planned at least since Kurtzman took over) could be seen as an attempt to shake up the show - to transport the characters (who are seen as the bright spot) into a new setting where they can be more freeform with storytelling.

 

[BillJ]

Not sure if this is the place to put this, but I really think that - if the Pike show is a go and a big hit - the chances of Discovery getting a fourth season are pretty low. By that point they're going to have several other Trek series in production - series which likely won't have the same production/arc issues Discovery has had due to the revolving door of showrunners.

I think it is a little early to make these kinds of claims, we really don't know what Michelle Paradise will bring to the table.