News Kurtzman: Criticism Is Useful

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A new news article has been published at TrekToday:

Everyone knows that Trek fans are very vocal about Star Trek, and they have definite opinions on how Star Trek: Discovery is...

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[Dales]

sad. i fear kurtzman should learn from the past. he should not be taking criticism lessons from ''fans'' on the internet,, the last time he took criticism from ''fans'' on the internet. he went into star trek into darkness with those criticisms said about star trek 2009 by ''fans'' and just made things worse.

As much as I may not agree with everything he does, I think he is better off sticking to his gut feeling as a writer than looking at what people (''fans'') say online and have it influence him. that is not what a real artist is.

 

[Jellico]

I know I’m enjoying the show. I may not have been reading the credits, so I didn’t know who Alex Kurtzman was until a week ago.

I’m one of the fans who believe that the Prime universe canon should remain a focus. I don’t know what’s going to happen yet, but Discovery has not disappointed my wife and I, who subscribe to CBS all access so that we can see new Trek.

 

[Jayson1]

I can feel a thousand erections in the force at the thought of Trek fans hearing their criticisms are being valued by the main guy in charge of all modern Trek. This must what be what it felt like back during that first Trek convention back in the 70's. Or maybe going further back when the fan writing campaign helped give TOS a third season.

Jason

 

[Lord Garth]

I question how useful some criticism can be when it's filled with a bunch of double-standards and hypocrisy.

 

[Tosk]

think he is better off sticking to his gut feeling as a writer than looking at what people (''fans'') say online and have it influence him. that is not what a real artist is.

Are you saying that no real artist would/should ever take into account the feedback of others? 'Cause I'd have to disagree pretty strongly with you there.

 

[Vger23]

If they are truly allowing "fan criticism" to influence their decisions...they may as well cancel the show and any future plans for the franchise right now.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I am going to write Bill Belichick a letter about running the ball more on offense next season.

 

[Terok Nor]

Constructive criticism is a great tool. Obviously some people go overboard and that's not helpful but it's good to know Kurtzman is listening and taking some concerns on board. The flipside is that some Discovery fans will not accept any criticism and are highly defensive whenever the show is criticised. That's not helping anyone. None of the Treks have been perfect and Discovery is no different so it's not immune to negative feedback.

 

[Vger23]

Constructive criticism is a great tool. Obviously some people go overboard and that's not helpful but it's good to know Kurtzman is listening and taking some concerns on board. The flipside is that some Discovery fans will not accept any criticism and are highly defensive whenever the show is criticised. That's not helping anyone. None of the Treks have been perfect and Discovery is no different so it's not immune to negative feedback.

Constructive criticism in fandom is a rare thing. Mostly it is blowhards crying and screaming from their mother's basements. And that's NOT healthy or constructive, and it actually creates / enables / encourages the opposite reaction of the defensiveness you are grating against.

And, the "highly defensive" nature of the show's supporters is perhaps not helpful, but it isn't far more helpful than the venom that is spewed pretty loudly by detractors.

If you think "constructive criticism" is what rises to the top, you are viewing the world through a very different lens than I do.

 

[Terok Nor]

Constructive criticism in fandom is a rare thing. Mostly it is blowhards crying and screaming from their mother's basements. And that's NOT healthy or constructive, and it actually creates the opposite reaction of the defensiveness you are grating against.

And, the "highly defensive" nature of the show's supporters is perhaps not helpful, but it isn't far more helpful than the venom that is spewed pretty loudly by detractors.

If you think "constructive criticism" is what rises to the top, you are viewing the world through a very different lens than I do.

Your hostility and defensiveness proves my point. No sane person would take on board criticism positive or negative delivered by a ranting maniac. Not that I'm saying you're one but I think you were implying that basement dwelling weirdos are the only ones who dislike Discovery and wanted changes.

 

[Jayson1]

Maybe not specific criticism but it's might be a good idea to get a sense of what people are responding to. Also I am sure someone can tell when looking at people's views more times than not when they are someone who has something constructive to say. At the very least it makes fans feel good that people care about what they like so at the very least it's good publicity.


Jason

 

[Vger23]

Your hostility and defensiveness proves my point. No sane person would take on board criticism positive or negative delivered by a ranting maniac. Not that I'm saying you're one but I think you were implying that basement dwelling weirdos are the only ones who dislike Discovery and wanted changes.

If that's your interpretation of "hostility and defensiveness," I realize the gross mistake I made in even bothering to engage with you.

And it shocks me that you so completely and obviously twisted my point to try and make me look like an ass. I never once in any way implied that people who criticize DSC are basement dwellers. The implication is that the crazy "haters" for lack of a better word (who absolutely do exist, are NOT constructive, and dedicate considerable time and resources to having their viewpoint be the loudest and most obvious) drown out any constructive criticism and, even worse, drive loyal fans to an automatily defensive posture.

If these are the criticisms the PTB are being guided by, game over baby.

 

[T'Bonz]

Hey, Jayson, not *ALL* Trek fans are women. The woman who runs this place is a Trek fan.

I would assume he reads select stuff and ignores the dumbass comments. He's probably trying to make a good show while not pulling a "Valentine for the Trek fans" type deal.

From where I sit, that's good.

I've said it before. People DO come here and read, quietly. You never know. So as Mirror Georgiou would say, "mind your p's and q's."

 

[Terok Nor]

If that's your interpretation of "hostility and defensiveness," I realize the gross mistake I made in even bothering to engage with you.

And it shocks me that you so completely and obviously twisted my point to try and make me look like an ass. I never once in any way implied that people who criticize DSC are basement dwellers. The implication is that the crazy "haters" for lack of a better word (who absolutely do exist, are NOT constructive, and dedicate considerable time and resources to having their viewpoint be the loudest and most obvious) drown out any constructive criticism and, even worse, drive loyal fans to an automatily defensive posture.

If these are the criticisms the PTB are being guided by, game over baby.

I never focused on crazy haters. That's all on you. You obviously did misinterpret my post. Feel free to disengage from me. You need no help making yourself look like an ass.

 

[Jayson1]

If that's your interpretation of "hostility and defensiveness," I realize the gross mistake I made in even bothering to engage with you.

And it shocks me that you so completely and obviously twisted my point to try and make me look like an ass. I never once in any way implied that people who criticize DSC are basement dwellers. The implication is that the crazy "haters" for lack of a better word (who absolutely do exist, are NOT constructive, and dedicate considerable time and resources to having their viewpoint be the loudest and most obvious) drown out any constructive criticism and, even worse, drive loyal fans to an automatily defensive posture.

If these are the criticisms the PTB are being guided by, game over baby.

Why would you think they are following the fans desires to that extent? It's very unlikely they would simply put all the shows choices in just the fans. You would think the new showrunner and writers and not to mention the suits above from CBS might also want to have some input not to mention his very self.
Seems unrealistic to even think he or any creator would do this. Listening though can never hurt, ever. You never know what someone might have to say that might be interesting or a good point that you never considered because maybe your not as much of a fan or just because you never know what people are thinking about. Hell the Super Bowl from what I understand got it's name because something Pete Rozelle's young daughter said about eating her bowl of cereal.

Jason

 

[Dales]

Are you saying that no real artist would/should ever take into account the feedback of others? 'Cause I'd have to disagree pretty strongly with you there.

mostly yes.

if you are a real artist I don't think people on the internet should mostly influence the outcome of your work.

 

[SolarisOne]

Kurtzman must have incredibly thick skin.

 

[Maurice]

The problem, of course, is that fans only want what they think they want. Nick Meyer understood that. By and large fans are not creatives, certainly not of the TV production variety. Fan films give you a pretty good idea of what a lot of fans think they want and they're usually cookie cutter rote recycling or tired tropes. I've read thousands of posts of what fans think should have happened in a movie or an episode and most of it is ignorant of how drama is structured and how it works.

So, you can take the pulse of fans to see how they reacted to various creative choices and use that to inform your future ones, but listening to their suggestions is probably a bad idea.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Constructive criticism in fandom is a rare thing. Mostly it is blowhards crying and screaming from their mother's basements. And that's NOT healthy or constructive, and it actually creates / enables / encourages the opposite reaction of the defensiveness you are grating against.

And, the "highly defensive" nature of the show's supporters is perhaps not helpful, but it isn't far more helpful than the venom that is spewed pretty loudly by detractors.

If you think "constructive criticism" is what rises to the top, you are viewing the world through a very different lens than I do.

Especially in posts that start with "Some constructive criticism..."

Actually, I don't see it much here, but I do on the forum for an online game I play, but I've taken to see that opening in a post in the similar light as I view a conversation that starts "No offense, but..." or "I'm not racist, but...".

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Listening to feedback doesn't mean being controlled by it. It's useful to hear what people are saying, you just have to have the maturity as a writer to take it as feedback and not advice.