Poll Picard Show Transwarp beaming?

[F. King Daniel]

The Picard Show is picking up after the future events of ST'09, where Romulus is destroyed by the Hobus supernova. But there's one other bit of game changing future knowledge Spock brings from 2387 in that movie: Transwarp beaming. First used to beam from a stationary start on Vulcan into the Enterprise at warp, then later used to beam 140 light-years from Earth to Kronos. It's unsafe (Scotty nearly died) but it's a game changer on-par with Discovery's Spore Drive.

Should The Picard Show feature it? Personally, I'd love to see the future where beaming from world to world is commonplace. And it would definitely seperate the turn of the 25th century from CBS' 23rd century Treks.

 

[Tenacity]

Problem with this tech is the problem with tech in general moving Star Trek into it's own future, it becomes too "magic like."

With too much technology you lose the characters having to deal with difficulty in most story situations, or you have to come up with reasons (repeatedly) why the technology doesn't work or can't be used.

Character injured or is exposed to a unknown illness? No problem just beam them to a major hospital on Earth. The entire scenario of Voyager becomes meaningless if the crew can simply leave.

It's the replicator all over again.

Probably better if the transporter remain restricted to at most tens of thousands of miles/kilometers.

 

[rahullak]

I'd like to see interplanet beaming. Although, I'd like to see some constraints placed on it: like you can only transport things of a certain size, to a certain distance, only if there are two mated pads, etc. Wouldn't want the whole idea of starship travel disappearing because the Federation invented Iconian gateways.

 

[Dukhat]

If it makes Patrick Steward look like more of a badass, you better believe they’ll have it. But I’d guess he’ll be too busy going places in a new Jeep to use a transporter.

 

[Rhodan]

Given what we know about Picard show, this sounds as rag-tag group of outsiders, who might not have top notch technology at their disposal. Personaly I would like this not be referenced or at least not very often.

 

[Christopher]

But there's one other bit of game changing future knowledge Spock brings from 2387 in that movie: Transwarp beaming. First used to beam from a stationary start on Vulcan into the Enterprise at warp, then later used to beam 140 light-years from Earth to Kronos. It's unsafe (Scotty nearly died) but it's a game changer on-par with Discovery's Spore Drive.

I've said over and over again -- they already had interstellar beaming in TNG, the subspace transporter used by DaiMon Bok in "Bloodlines." The technology was already known, but wasn't used because it was too unsafe and impractical. For that matter, Starfleet knew about interstellar beaming a century earlier -- it was used by both the Triskelion Providers and the Kalandan Outpost. Voyager also encountered an interstellar transporter technology in "Displaced" (as well as the Sikarian trajector in "Prime Factors," but that was a space folding system so it doesn't quite count). And Emory Erickson was even experimenting with interstellar beaming (unsuccessfully) as far back as the 2150s in "Daedalus." Given all the times this concept has been used in Trek, I don't understand why everyone assumes the movie's version of it was some unprecedented breakthrough. All they did was give it a different name.

So there's nothing "game-changing" about the movie's transwarp beaming. Interstellar transporters are a technology that's been known for over a century but never been made practical or safe. The portrayal in the movie added nothing new to that -- it was clearly stated and shown that it was too difficult and dangerous to use routinely. (STID did treat it rather casually, but maybe Khan was fearless enough to take the risk.)

 

[Stephen!]

Probably better if the transporter remain restricted to at most tens of thousands of miles/kilometers.

Or further, if Federation transporter technology has advanced over the decades. Particularly if they've caught up with Dominion transporters, which were shown to have a longer range, such as transporting Kira to Empok Nor.

 

[F. King Daniel]

An early concept for The Next Generation has the crew living on Earth and beaming to different planets, Stargate-style for weekly adventures.

I've said over and over again -- they already had interstellar beaming in TNG, the subspace transporter used by DaiMon Bok in "Bloodlines." The technology was already known, but wasn't used because it was too unsafe and impractical. For that matter, Starfleet knew about interstellar beaming a century earlier -- it was used by both the Triskelion Providers and the Kalandan Outpost. Voyager also encountered an interstellar transporter technology in "Displaced" (as well as the Sikarian trajector in "Prime Factors," but that was a space folding system so it doesn't quite count). And Emory Erickson was even experimenting with interstellar beaming (unsuccessfully) as far back as the 2150s in "Daedalus." Given all the times this concept has been used in Trek, I don't understand why everyone assumes the movie's version of it was some unprecedented breakthrough. All they did was give it a different name.

So there's nothing "game-changing" about the movie's transwarp beaming. Interstellar transporters are a technology that's been known for over a century but never been made practical or safe. The portrayal in the movie added nothing new to that -- it was clearly stated and shown that it was too difficult and dangerous to use routinely. (STID did treat it rather casually, but maybe Khan was fearless enough to take the risk.)

"Bloodlines" beamed "across several light-years" which sounds far less than Earth to Kronos, which is around 140. And no prior version to the best of my knowledge featured beaming from a (relatively) stationary start to a ship at warp. Thus it may be that transwarp beaming is a newer and different technology, in the same way that the spore drive is different from Voyager's infinite salamander drive.

Even if they are the same, The Picard Show could always depict a perfected version of the technology, which would indeed be "game changing". Disco has updated the technology of the pre-TOS era to match that of Nemesis, so the ability to reliably beam from world to world would be a nice indicator that we're further into the future.

 

[Christopher]

"Bloodlines" beamed "across several light-years" which sounds far less than Earth to Kronos, which is around 140.

I'm not convinced Khan beamed directly to Qo'noS, despite what the film implied. He could've "transwarp" beamed to a ship that then took him the rest of the way. And even if he did beam directly, that still doesn't prove it was a safe and reliable technology; as I said, it could just mean that he was daring enough to take the risk. It's not like he didn't risk his life in a dozen other ways in the pursuit of his vengeance.

And no prior version to the best of my knowledge featured beaming from a (relatively) stationary start to a ship at warp. Thus it may be that transwarp beaming is a newer and different technology, in the same way that the spore drive is different from Voyager's infinite salamander drive.

Indeed, the dialogue in ST '09 explains "transwarp" beaming to mean exactly that:

What if I told you that your transwarp theory was correct? That it is indeed possible to beam onto a ship that is travelling at warp speed?

So it was "trans-" in the sense of "across" (the warp bubble) rather than "beyond" (warp speed) as in previous uses of the word "transwarp." Although the film blurred it together with the idea of interstellar beaming, and STID ignored that etymology entirely.

Even if they are the same, The Picard Show could always depict a perfected version of the technology, which would indeed be "game changing".

They could, yes, but my point is that they don't have to. People are always bizarrely assuming that the interstellar beaming tech mentioned by Spock in ST '09 was some unprecedented invention that happened sometime after Nemesis, ignoring the multiple references to interstellar beaming that we've had in the franchise going back to TOS. My point is that, given that "transwarp beaming" was just as dangerous and unreliable (ask Scotty) as the "subspace transporter" in "Bloodlines," it doesn't actually need to be interpreted as an advance or breakthrough at all. It could be the exact same technology with exactly the same obstacles to practical development. So there's no reason a post-2387 series would be required to include routine interstellar beaming as a reality. If there's a good story reason to include it, then sure, yeah, include it. But if not, then it's perfectly plausible that it's not in use because it's still too risky.

 

[rahullak]

Since it is time-placed 20 years after end of TNG, everyone would be expecting one or some game-changing tech. If prequels could show some amped up stuff (whether they are truly continuity-breaking is a whole other discussion), then sequels certainly have to. Whether that's gonna be a reliable transwarp beaming or not, I'd like to see some tech that helps set the tone for the new Picard series.

 

[Christopher]

Since it is time-placed 20 years after end of TNG, everyone would be expecting one or some game-changing tech.

Expectation and reality aren't always the same thing. There was a century between TOS and TNG, but how "game-changing" were the advances between them, really? Warp drive, transporters, phasers, and torpedoes were all pretty much the same, just nominally increased in power or range (which had no real story impact). Food synthesizers had given way to faster and more versatile replicators, but that was just a refinement of transporter technology. There was only one functioning android despite a bunch of androids having been seen in TOS. Medical science was not hugely more advanced, aside from Geordi's VISOR being a somewhat better tool for the blind than Miranda Jones's sensor web. The one big advance was in holographic simulators, but those were shown to exist in TAS and were mentioned in The Making of Star Trek as existing in a crude form on the TOS-era ship. So really, even after a century, the advances were little more than incremental.

If writers want to go on telling Trek-type stories, there's only so far they can advance the technology before it changes things too much. If interstellar beaming became a reality, there'd be less use for starships. If medical science advanced too far, everyone would be immortal and there'd be no danger. And so on. There are dramatic reasons why the makers of SFTV shows tend to keep the technology within certain limits, even when it's unrealistic.

 

[rahullak]

Expectation and reality aren't always the same thing. There was a century between TOS and TNG, but how "game-changing" were the advances between them, really? Warp drive, transporters, phasers, and torpedoes were all pretty much the same, just nominally increased in power or range (which had no real story impact). Food synthesizers had given way to faster and more versatile replicators, but that was just a refinement of transporter technology. There was only one functioning android despite a bunch of androids having been seen in TOS. Medical science was not hugely more advanced, aside from Geordi's VISOR being a somewhat better tool for the blind than Miranda Jones's sensor web. The one big advance was in holographic simulators, but those were shown to exist in TAS and were mentioned in The Making of Star Trek as existing in a crude form on the TOS-era ship. So really, even after a century, the advances were little more than incremental.

If writers want to go on telling Trek-type stories, there's only so far they can advance the technology before it changes things too much. If interstellar beaming became a reality, there'd be less use for starships. If medical science advanced too far, everyone would be immortal and there'd be no danger. And so on. There are dramatic reasons why the makers of SFTV shows tend to keep the technology within certain limits, even when it's unrealistic.

And yet that doesn't preclude writers from introducing new, different, incremental or game-changing tech. Creative writers can always introduce tech in a way that enhances story-telling potential rather than compromise it. If Discovery, despite being a prequel, can have the spore-drive, I see there's a good possibility of some other tech introduced for the Picard series, with all the more reason that it is a sequel. It makes sense in-universe for there to be some tech change after 20 years. Because that's what happens in real-life too. We can debate on whether that tech will be "game-changing" or not based on past iterations of Trek, but I expect some change. The more that change enhances the story, the better for the show.

If there's no change at all from the tech of TNG/DS9/VOY, I expect howls of protestations from some quarters. Not that that wouldn't be entertaining in itself.

 

[Christopher]

And yet that doesn't preclude writers from introducing new, different, incremental or game-changing tech. Creative writers can always introduce tech in a way that enhances story-telling potential rather than compromise it.

I never said it was impossible. Of course it would be great if they did that. But it would've been great if they'd done it 32 years ago for TNG, and they didn't. Just don't expect it to be a given, that's all I'm saying.

If you want really creative portrayals of technology in science fiction, then you should be reading prose. That's where the real imagination and innovation are. Science fiction in TV and movies tends to be entry-level stuff, barely scratching the surface of technological possibilities, because it's written for a mainstream audience and is usually written by people who know more about character and drama than they know about science and technology.

It makes sense in-universe for there to be some tech change after 20 years. Because that's what happens in real-life too.

That's my point. It would've made sense for there to be huge changes between TOS and TNG, but there weren't, because make-believe doesn't have to follow real-world rules. There's a ton of stuff in Trek that doesn't make a shred of sense, like humanoid aliens, interspecies breeding, psioinic powers, universal translators, etc. So there's no guarantee that any more sense would be applied when it comes to the portrayal of technological progress. There will probably be some advances, but as with TNG vis-a-vis TOS, I wouldn't be surprised if they were more cosmetic or incremental than "game-changing."

After all, the impression I get about the Picard show is that it's not about hardware, it's about the man himself and how his life has changed. It also sounds like it's about the pursuit of an archaeological mystery, something from the distant past. So any fin-de-vingt-quatrième-siècle technology we see in the show will exist to serve those story focuses. If a major breakthrough like interstellar beaming would serve the story by enabling an archaeological quest around the galaxy, say, then it will happen. But if a game-changing technological advance would distract from the narrative of Picard's personal journey, then it won't be there no matter how much sense it makes.

 

[Onid]

I don't think it's a good idea to have too advanced technology that breaks some previous basic limitations of it. The writers would always write themselves in a corner.
It would be interesting to see it go wrong. Like beaming in The Motion Picture. After all it is like "trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse."

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I've said over and over again -- they already had interstellar beaming in TNG, the subspace transporter used by DaiMon Bok in "Bloodlines." The technology was already known, but wasn't used because it was too unsafe and impractical. For that matter, Starfleet knew about interstellar beaming a century earlier -- it was used by both the Triskelion Providers and the Kalandan Outpost.

Don't forget Gary 7's organization. They clearly had some form of interstellar beaming.

 

[Christopher]

Don't forget Gary 7's organization. They clearly had some form of interstellar beaming.

Thanks -- I thought I was forgetting one.

 

[Tenacity]

Or further, if Federation transporter technology ...

if picard is traveling about in the equivent of a civilian tramp steamer, then the transporter might be of lesser range than archers ship.

 

[F. King Daniel]

if picard is traveling about in the equivent of a civilian tramp steamer, then the transporter might be of lesser range than archers ship.

The transwarp beaming mid in ST'09 was a software patch, so presumably it could be applied to most transporters to give them the same effect.

Speaking of which, Nemesis gave us the prototype escape transporter, where the entire unit was the size of a comm badge. Imagine reusable commbadge-sized transporters...

 

[rahullak]

They've got to malfunction at least as many times as they function. Dramatic potential...

 

[Tenacity]

^ well that's the problem. if they're given a fantastic ability, then there's going to have to be a reason the fantastic ability doesn't work.