Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x09 - "Project Daedalus"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Yep me too. Maybe there was some kind of free promotional trial period for commercial-free viewing.
That would've sent him through the roof!
I've had that the past month at least. Maybe all season, I just did not notice at first. However if I stream NCIS I get ads at every normal commercial break. Not complaining!
Yup.
I really have to agree that the maudlinness felt unearned and really artificial. They tried to frame this as Thrones-style high drama or Whedonesque, but Airiam out an airlock didn't exactly create a hole in the galaxy, so to speak.
I just got the "kaos" reference in this episode's poll options.
Missed it by that much!
Missed it by that much!
Peck was good at it, too. He surprised me when he went full angry. The build-up was pretty subtle. I'm liking his performance.
The tri-dimensional chess board looked cheap compared with the one from the '60s. But considering how the scene ends, good thing it wasn't a glass one from the Franklin Mint.
Honestly I'm pretty sure it was 3d printed in a hurry, from the look of it.
I think that was intentional - another example of Burnham's spartan existence that Spock had just commented on.
If the writers were actually thinking that hard, then I suppose the explanation is that Starfleet EV suits aren't equipped with non-Federation atmosphere supplies by default.
The episode started with them about the get married. Airiam and Tomlinson are completely different because of that.
Those are specifics not the basic idea that I'm getting at. We got to see some of what their life was like. What got to know them to an extent. Enough that for the purposes of the episode itself, I felt bad when Ariam died. She wasn't just some stupid Redshirt.
She had a plotline that was developing the last few episodes anyway and even if you don't give a shit about Ariam, at least the audience can care about Tilly and Burnham's reactions, who we do know. Ariam mattered to them and thus matters to me.
Also: if she's been hacked and there's no way to stop her without killing her, then it's kill or be killed. Which makes it tragic because something was possessing her.
I think some of you care more about the death of Connolly than the death of Ariam. Why? Because "White Male". That's why. Nothing else. But there were posters who went on and on and on about someone who was in three scenes. Versus someone we've seen for over 20 episodes.
The difference is Tomlinson was just dramatic tension used to create poignancy and pathos to the episode.
Airiam's death was presented or framed as character-defining and arc-altering melodrama.
They aren't remotely similar.
Airiam's death was presented or framed as character-defining and arc-altering melodrama.
They aren't remotely similar.
The scenes at the beginning set up the poignancy. That's why they're there.
thought it was a pretty fantastic episode and jonathan frakes’ clear direction is really welcome after last week’s directed-to-death outing.
going in, i was ready to criticize the series for loading one episode up with airiam backstory and not doing the legwork to establish her over the course of one and a half seasons. but, by the end, i thought the episode worked really well as a narrative fleshing her out and giving her a complete arc.
i could’ve used more explanation and exploration of section 31 headquarters, but that’s always my complaint this season: i want the episodes to be 2 hours long.
going in, i was ready to criticize the series for loading one episode up with airiam backstory and not doing the legwork to establish her over the course of one and a half seasons. but, by the end, i thought the episode worked really well as a narrative fleshing her out and giving her a complete arc.
i could’ve used more explanation and exploration of section 31 headquarters, but that’s always my complaint this season: i want the episodes to be 2 hours long.
9/10 from me (Last Weeks "If Memory Serves" set my 10 bar, so I kinda doubt I'll be giving another 10 unless it's something really spectacular)
Liked:
- The whole dynamic between Spock and Burnham. Last week I said that the thing Burnham did shouldn't have affected 'adult' Spock that much; BUT as some others have pointed out, some things that traumatize you in childhood you have trouble getting over in adulthood - and that's obviously the case with Spock here. This ISN'T the Spock from TOS 10 years in ST: D's future. This is a Spock who at first (probably as a way to rebel against Sarek) was more secretly embracing his Human side and I like that because it now makes his actions in TOS - "The Cage" fit.
(Yes, I know the Production reason; but I enjoy the fact they've now written a good reason why Spock was the way he was in TOS - "The Cage". Burnham and Sarek screwed/scarred him psychologically growing up BIG TIME - and in a way, because she was being a faithful Vulcan wife to Sarek, Amanda did too; and Amanda only realized it recently, which is why she went so far beyond what she normally would to try and help Spock.)
And for anyne who thinks "No way, this is totally out of character for Spock..." - when you look at other things we know about Spock as well as things he admitted himself:
- As a child there was a time he played practical jokes on others (from TAS S1 - "Yesteryear")
- From the time Spock enlisted in Starfleet up to a mission where he had to take Ambassadors (including Sarek) to Babel; Spock and Sarek hadn't spoken as Father and Son for 18 years, AND when Kirk assigned Spock to give Sarek a tour of the ship, Sarek reolied: "I prefer another guide." and this was when Spock told Kirk Sarek and Amanda were his parents - (From TOS S2 - "Journey To Babel".)
- Sarek stated Spock wouldn't listen to him and even when Sarek punished Spock, Spock would just endure it. (TNG S5 - Unification)
- Spock told Picard that He and his Father never chose to Mind Meld (from TNG S5 - Unification II )which means, no, even after a century Spock never really got over what occurred between him and his Father during Spock's youth, and Spock's Starfleet career.
^^^
So, yeah, given all that I think the younger Spock we see here in this time period on ST: D does fit. We're seeing him now starting (or trying to) favor and accept his Vulcan side. Spock is PISSED and is trying to deal with that traumatic anger along with everything else; and to do that, yeah, he'll start to embrace his Vulcan side.
- The backstory provided for Arium. (I had a feeling when they started out with showcasing it and other aspects, that the whole "Amium has been programmed by the 'Bad Guys'.. " story line was going to come to a head in this episode; but hell even I didn't think they'd do what they did in the end.)
- That Admiral Cromwell (who had evidence to the Contrary) wasn't just taking everyone at their word that Spock was innocent because his Captain and his Sister were saying, "He wouldn't murder someone." I thought the questioning scene and her then showing Pike and Burnham what she had was played out well.
- Yeah, it's sappy, but I liked the "reason" Starfleet Command had Pike and the 1701 sit out the Fed/Klingon war.
- That there was a good reason why the Control AI didn't just take out Discovery. It wants data the Discovery has; and it's also trying to keep Starfleet Command from realizing what it's up to. (IE - Even if Starfleet Command has a full copy of the Data that was downloaded from the Sphere Lifeform - if it tries to get Command to either feed in all the raw data; it might sety off some alarm bells in some of their minds and it wants to keep its plans secret until it's ready. (Hell, the actual Admirals may have realized what it was trying to do, and that's when it killed them and started along the path that's brought the story to this point. It did what it did to lure Discovery to it, and then disabled the ship so it could get exactly what it needs. I'm sure once it verified it had everything it wanted, it would have destroyed the ship. I also think it hasn't yet alerted any others (IE Starfleet or Section 31 ships) because again, it needs to keep both of those groups in the dark until i has what it needs.
- Pike saying "Shitstorm" (Profanity is okay when its use makes sense
)
- Nan in a Discovery Skirt uniform. (See there will still be miniskirts for female crew in the later 23rd century.)
Questioned:
- Why the Federation would outlaw the use of Space Mines in the 23rd Century (And it's a policy they completely dropped by the 24th century - (See DS9 S5 "A Call To Arms" <--- Hell, those Mines were self-replicating too)
- Why Pike didn't just use the Ship's Phasers (and other weapons) to clear a path once things started to deteriorate on the approach (or warp out and come back and try something else.)
- Why if they still had Transporter locks on the members of the Landing Party (Arium in particular); that Discovery did just beam her out into space using the Transporter.
- I also have to wonder how Arium disabled her Helmet (she says as much) to the point where Control (who is in control of her motor functions) couldn't re-enable it, but hey "Drama".
Disliked:
- That they killed Arium (I'm not taking points off because it served the story fine.)
Also:
So, again, 9/10
Overall I find the story arc in this season a lot more cohesive than what was done for Season One, thus I actually think we'll get a satisfying conclusion that ends this story and sets up Season 3. But, we'll see.
Liked:
- The whole dynamic between Spock and Burnham. Last week I said that the thing Burnham did shouldn't have affected 'adult' Spock that much; BUT as some others have pointed out, some things that traumatize you in childhood you have trouble getting over in adulthood - and that's obviously the case with Spock here. This ISN'T the Spock from TOS 10 years in ST: D's future. This is a Spock who at first (probably as a way to rebel against Sarek) was more secretly embracing his Human side and I like that because it now makes his actions in TOS - "The Cage" fit.
(Yes, I know the Production reason; but I enjoy the fact they've now written a good reason why Spock was the way he was in TOS - "The Cage". Burnham and Sarek screwed/scarred him psychologically growing up BIG TIME - and in a way, because she was being a faithful Vulcan wife to Sarek, Amanda did too; and Amanda only realized it recently, which is why she went so far beyond what she normally would to try and help Spock.)
And for anyne who thinks "No way, this is totally out of character for Spock..." - when you look at other things we know about Spock as well as things he admitted himself:
- As a child there was a time he played practical jokes on others (from TAS S1 - "Yesteryear")
- From the time Spock enlisted in Starfleet up to a mission where he had to take Ambassadors (including Sarek) to Babel; Spock and Sarek hadn't spoken as Father and Son for 18 years, AND when Kirk assigned Spock to give Sarek a tour of the ship, Sarek reolied: "I prefer another guide." and this was when Spock told Kirk Sarek and Amanda were his parents - (From TOS S2 - "Journey To Babel".)
- Sarek stated Spock wouldn't listen to him and even when Sarek punished Spock, Spock would just endure it. (TNG S5 - Unification)
- Spock told Picard that He and his Father never chose to Mind Meld (from TNG S5 - Unification II )which means, no, even after a century Spock never really got over what occurred between him and his Father during Spock's youth, and Spock's Starfleet career.
^^^
So, yeah, given all that I think the younger Spock we see here in this time period on ST: D does fit. We're seeing him now starting (or trying to) favor and accept his Vulcan side. Spock is PISSED and is trying to deal with that traumatic anger along with everything else; and to do that, yeah, he'll start to embrace his Vulcan side.
- The backstory provided for Arium. (I had a feeling when they started out with showcasing it and other aspects, that the whole "Amium has been programmed by the 'Bad Guys'.. " story line was going to come to a head in this episode; but hell even I didn't think they'd do what they did in the end.)
- That Admiral Cromwell (who had evidence to the Contrary) wasn't just taking everyone at their word that Spock was innocent because his Captain and his Sister were saying, "He wouldn't murder someone." I thought the questioning scene and her then showing Pike and Burnham what she had was played out well.
- Yeah, it's sappy, but I liked the "reason" Starfleet Command had Pike and the 1701 sit out the Fed/Klingon war.
- That there was a good reason why the Control AI didn't just take out Discovery. It wants data the Discovery has; and it's also trying to keep Starfleet Command from realizing what it's up to. (IE - Even if Starfleet Command has a full copy of the Data that was downloaded from the Sphere Lifeform - if it tries to get Command to either feed in all the raw data; it might sety off some alarm bells in some of their minds and it wants to keep its plans secret until it's ready. (Hell, the actual Admirals may have realized what it was trying to do, and that's when it killed them and started along the path that's brought the story to this point. It did what it did to lure Discovery to it, and then disabled the ship so it could get exactly what it needs. I'm sure once it verified it had everything it wanted, it would have destroyed the ship. I also think it hasn't yet alerted any others (IE Starfleet or Section 31 ships) because again, it needs to keep both of those groups in the dark until i has what it needs.
- Pike saying "Shitstorm" (Profanity is okay when its use makes sense
)- Nan in a Discovery Skirt uniform. (See there will still be miniskirts for female crew in the later 23rd century.)
Questioned:
- Why the Federation would outlaw the use of Space Mines in the 23rd Century (And it's a policy they completely dropped by the 24th century - (See DS9 S5 "A Call To Arms" <--- Hell, those Mines were self-replicating too
)- Why Pike didn't just use the Ship's Phasers (and other weapons) to clear a path once things started to deteriorate on the approach (or warp out and come back and try something else.)
- Why if they still had Transporter locks on the members of the Landing Party (Arium in particular); that Discovery did just beam her out into space using the Transporter.
- I also have to wonder how Arium disabled her Helmet (she says as much) to the point where Control (who is in control of her motor functions) couldn't re-enable it, but hey "Drama".
Disliked:
- That they killed Arium (I'm not taking points off because it served the story fine.)
Also:
I honestly think the 'Red Angel' will turn out to be Arium in some form. She may be from the timeline where Control 'won'; but yeah, I think she's the one trying to 'fix time'. Bu, time will tell.
So, again, 9/10
Overall I find the story arc in this season a lot more cohesive than what was done for Season One, thus I actually think we'll get a satisfying conclusion that ends this story and sets up Season 3. But, we'll see.
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Those scenes should have been sprinkled in what came before. I mean maybe I just look at it as a massive missed opportunity, or what the show could have been. I didn't find memory clips poignant because none of those things ever happened based on what came before. The writers just filled her character up with this stuff rather than let it develop naturally. Now if we had a hint of any of that from before, than this episode would have been much more poignant.
With that said, I still enjoyed this episode, but it points the the big issue I have with discovery, which is they don't do a good job developing characters.
