Captain Marvel and the ethics of film criticism.

[Awesome Possum]

sigh you are making it about my opinions but this was not about my opinions, these was about professional critics. if i was your friend in school i can have an opinion as your friend the teacher should not have given you a D. does not change the hard facts the teacher who is a professional education officer gave you a D and can prove why you deserved the score with hard facts.

I know it is of fact that the slate review that admits the movie is generic and mediocre can and should not be a pass mark. that is fact because being generic and being mediocre are not synonyms for good. at least in the factual English dictionary. but it gets a pass from slate all because the movie lead is a woman?

Every professional critic will tell you that it is just their opinion and the ones who don’t have their heads up their own ass because of ego will admit that others may feel differently. That’s why Rotten Tomatoes exists, you get the consensus of several critics. But even then that’s not hard data, just a lot of people agreeing. Even if everyone hates a certain movie that doesn’t make it bad because someone will connect to it and love it. For some people, the Star Wars prequels were their first exposure to Star Wars and they truly love. Now most people think they suck, but does that mean that prequel fans are wrong? I don’t think so. I don’t like them, but I didn’t connect to them and I can’t tell someone they’re wrong for liking them.

The way critics work is that you find one that you generally agree with, but still be prepared to have a different opinion than them. I stick to MovieBob because we’re pretty close in tastes. Even then I’ll give movies a try if he hates it.

 

[Dales]

That's a lot of hot air, not to mention bad grammar and spelling for someone pulling the education card, to say nothing to the point. Your ignorance of the film due to not having seen it makes your uninspired screed sound less than valid.

1. it was not about my personal opinion but the professional reviews opinions.

2. things are hot in the air because I feel as if i am getting attacked personally like my poor grammer and spellings and my message is getting ignored which is usually the case when someone is making a point that seems to be carrying weight.

3. my poor grammar and spelling does not devalue the realness of the education card that apply to credible film criticism or at least used to, it is there because it offers a non bias and fair judgement ,something professional movie critics claim to be but are clearly not in the case of captain marvel.

I mean let me give you two examples.

this is the CGI of black panther

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this is the cgi of spiderman 2. 14 years ago

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from the two movies, it is far from a hard fact objective opinion black panther has better cgi. there are real merit measure that proves in a sound and logical reason spiderman 2 is better in cgi objectively.

you talk about how I am less than valid but how valid is this as a good review

''There is a sense here though that the MCU formula is now being relied upon to paper over some of the cracks in the storytelling''.

that is not a valid good review.it is indeed generic.

 

[Gov Kodos]

sigh you are making it about my opinions but this was not about my opinions, these was about professional critics. if i was your friend in school i can have an opinion as your friend the teacher should not have given you a D. does not change the hard facts the teacher who is a professional education officer gave you a D and can prove why you deserved the score with hard facts.

I know it is of fact that the slate review that admits the movie is generic and mediocre can and should not be a pass mark. that is fact because being generic and being mediocre are not synonyms for good. at least in the factual English dictionary. but it gets a pass from slate all because the movie lead is a woman?

Actually, this thread is entirely about your opinion, your opinion on the reviews- which are themselves subjective opinions. One aspect that makes them have any relevance, if at all, is that they were written by people that saw the film, unlike you. However, their opinions are no more than that and do not have any worth as factual statement as to the movie's being good or bad. That is always the province of the viewer to make judgement on themselves. Go see the film or don't but nattering on about something you know nothing about based on subjective opinion is not very convincing.

 

[Dales]

Every professional critic will tell you that it is just their opinion and the ones who don’t have their heads up their own ass because of ego will admit that others may feel differently. That’s why Rotten Tomatoes exists, you get the consensus of several critics. But even then that’s not hard data, just a lot of people agreeing. Even if everyone hates a certain movie that doesn’t make it bad because someone will connect to it and love it. For some people, the Star Wars prequels were their first exposure to Star Wars and they truly love. Now most people think they suck, but does that mean that prequel fans are wrong? I don’t think so. I don’t like them, but I didn’t connect to them and I can’t tell someone they’re wrong for liking them.

oh deer and there is the game changer.

professional critics and opinions. as long as you have the term processional in front of your name, your opinions are supposed to be objective. formed based on hard facts or a credible measurement of things.

that is why you always hear terms such as

act like a professional

its not personal , its business

am I your friend right now or your boss

or better if you re applying for a job the company does not expect you to get a reference from your parents or siblings. even if they were your former bosses.

Hope I made sense with this. RT existed once for good reason but with everything that has happened leading up to captain marvel, like removing the audience ratings there is now a certain big loss of credibility with RT and critics. the same critics, who most are not being professional when it comes to reviewing the movie

 

[Awesome Possum]

I think Lucy is a perfect film. I know a lot of people hate it because of the premise alone. But I find it endlessly entertaining. I have similar feelings about everything made by the Wachowskis. These movies connected with me and no one can change my mind and I wouldn’t try to change anyone else’s mind if they hate it.

 

[Awesome Possum]

oh deer and there is the game changer.

professional critics and opinions. as long as you have the term processional in front of your name, your opinions are supposed to be objective. formed based on hard facts or a credible measurement of things.

that is why you always hear terms such as

act like a professional

its not personal , its business

am I your friend right now or your boss

or better if you re applying for a job the company does not expect you to get a reference from your parents or siblings. even if they were your former bosses.

Hope I made sense with this. RT existed once for good reason but with everything that has happened leading up to captain marvel, like removing the audience ratings there is now a certain big loss of credibility with RT and critics. the same critics, who most are not being professional when it comes to reviewing the movie

You aren’t making any sense. You’re failing to comprehend the very concept of criticism.

 

[Jayson1]

If we are talking about the issue of something being subjective I think there is two ways to look at that.

1 A movie is not good or bad. It's subject to subjective opinions based on all those who see it.

2 The question I think people want to get to is. Why do people believe the things they believe and in this regards it's about movies and if they are good or not.. What is their personal criteria in making the views they have?. Are people able to be subjective towards things that might not be connected to who they are in terms of race,gender or politics or you can even go deeper such a country or area of a country you live in and so forth?

Can a white male dislike the movie for any reason other than sexism. Can a female like it for any reason other than it is about a strong female character. Are only liberals going to like it and republicans hate it. Are people capable of being objective enough to look beyond their world view to judge it fairly and if someone likes or dislikes it maybe they like or dislike it for reason other than reasons others like or dislike it.

One thing I don't like is how people assume things about peoples views just because of race and gender but I also know race and gender influence opinions but people are capable of being objective enough to enjoy things that might not be targeted for them so I wish we would keep that in mind. We need to stop treating each other like walking cliches.



Jason

 

[Gov Kodos]

oh deer and there is the game changer.

professional critics and opinions. as long as you have the term processional in front of your name, your opinions are supposed to be objective. formed based on hard facts or a credible measurement of things.

that is why you always hear terms such as

act like a professional

its not personal , its business

am I your friend right now or your boss

or better if you re applying for a job the company does not expect you to get a reference from your parents or siblings. even if they were your former bosses.

Hope I made sense with this. RT existed once for good reason but with everything that has happened leading up to captain marvel, like removing the audience ratings there is now a certain big loss of credibility with RT and critics. the same critics, who most are not being professional when it comes to reviewing the movie

No, no, professional means they get paid for what they are doing more than anything else. Their knowledge may make them better at buttressing their opinion than someone like yourself with little knowledge of the topic this concerns, Captain Marvel, but their opinion is still just as subjective as the one word crowd. Of course, the viewers of the one word crowd persuasion have an opinion that is superior to anyone who hasn't seen the film at all for having an informed opinion. Informed opinions are always better. No reasonable professional reviewer would review a film without seeing it since that would be unprofessional. However, their opinion is still just an opinion. Folks who haven't seen the film but believe waving the opinions of others gives their thoughts any validity are sadly misleading themselves into error and silliness.

 

[Spot261]

No? but without a substance reply to what I said? that seems like yes to me. its not like I made any of it up. things seem weird with the reviews, I was only Pointing that out.

look at the mary sue review:https://www.themarysue.com/captain-marvel-men-negative-eyerollllll/

''Captain Marvel Is Fun and Most of the Negative Reviews Are Written by Men … Shocking''.

This surely can't be a serious review? same goes to most of the reviews to this film.

A movie been fun does not make it good if the screenplay and directing is far from good.

Indulge me a moment, I'm curious and it can't be helped.

How is it there's such a disparity between you phrasing, grammar, sentence structure and general use of language between the OP and your later posts?

 

[Dales]

I think Lucy is a perfect film. I know a lot of people hate it because of the premise alone. But I find it endlessly entertaining. I have similar feelings about everything made by the Wachowskis. These movies connected with me and no one can change my mind and I wouldn’t try to change anyone else’s mind if they hate it.

how can you say it was about my opinon in the reviews which are subjective?

I posted the reviews, maybe the critics should have used better words but they chose to use words that factually make the movie look more bad than good.

You aren’t making any sense. You’re failing to comprehend the very concept of criticism.

I am not making sense? I doubt it when all I have done is provide sensible examples of real criticisms.
How I can make no sense when even you have heard the term act like a professional seems more like a denial than less sense of subjective opinions and objective opinions.

 

[Spot261]

I think Lucy is a perfect film. I know a lot of people hate it because of the premise alone. But I find it endlessly entertaining. I have similar feelings about everything made by the Wachowskis. These movies connected with me and no one can change my mind and I wouldn’t try to change anyone else’s mind if they hate it.

Lucy is fantastic, like "Limitless" but without limits.....

 

[Awesome Possum]

how can you say it was about my opinon in the reviews which are subjective?

I posted the reviews, maybe the critics should have used better words but they chose to use words that factually make the movie look more bad than good.



I am not making sense? I doubt it when all I have done is provide sensible examples of real criticisms.
How I can make no sense when even you have heard the term act like a professional seems more like a denial than less sense of subjective opinions and objective opinions.

What?

 

[Spot261]

Professional, nothing in there about being objective, which in fairness makes perfect sense in a profession which deals all but exclusively in subjective material.

 

[Dales]

No, no, professional means they get paid for what they are doing more than anything else. Their knowledge may make them better at buttressing their opinion than someone like yourself with little knowledge of the topic this concerns, Captain Marvel, but their opinion is still just as subjective as the one word crowd. Of course, the viewers of the one word crowd persuasion have an opinion that is superior to anyone who hasn't seen the film at all for having an informed opinion. Informed opinions are always better. No reasonable professional reviewer would review a film without seeing it since that would be unprofessional. However, their opinion is still just an opinion. Folks who haven't seen the film but believe waving the opinions of others gives their thoughts any validity are sadly misleading themselves into error and silliness.

no professional means a fair and honest opinion based on some hard fact or real measurement of craft.

professional also means they are fully qualified to do the job correctly in reviewing movies objecivtvely.

black panther and SM2 are good examples.

as long as the critic is professional writing a review, he would come to the conclusion the cgi effects of black panther is bad to SM2.now the critic can go home and talk to his wife and say I like the cgi better in black panther because i am a mcu fan.

however the critic can't say that as long as he is being professional in a review site of film that is suppose to be journalistic. its will be unethical

its all opinions but has it ever occurred to you opinions are formed based on some hard evidence.

for instance i have an opinion president donalrd trump is lieing cheat of a husband. its my opinion sure but i have sound and logical evidence in having that opinion.

opinions are not just opinions when there is good evidence to support your opinions like the case with captain marvel reviews. that mostly seem mediocre in the critics own words. which is why I question the ethics of them still giving it a pass mark knowing if it was another movie it wont be the case.

 

[Gov Kodos]

how can you say it was about my opinon in the reviews which are subjective?

I posted the reviews, maybe the critics should have used better words but they chose to use words that factually make the movie look more bad than good.

Your opinion, such as it is, is to accept as valid the subjective opinions of others, the reviewers- the ones who confirm whatever opinion it is you have great trouble expressing and is uninformed as you haven't seen the movie.

I am not making sense? I doubt it when all I have done is provide sensible examples of real criticisms.
How I can make no sense when even you have heard the term act like a professional seems more like a denial than less sense of subjective opinions and objective opinions.

You've provided nothing but the opinions of other people. Their opinions have no effect on any viewer's liking or disliking the film. They'll make that opinion themselves. You on the other hand have no opinion worth noting because it is an uninformed opinion

no professional means a fair and honest opinion based on some hard fact or real measurement of craft.

professional also means they are fully qualified to do the job correctly in reviewing movies objecivtvely.

black panther and SM2 are good examples.

as ling as the critic is professional writing a review, he would come to the conclusion the cgi effects of black panther is bad to SM2.

now the critic can go home and talk to his wife and say I like the cgi better in black panther because i am an mcu fan.

however the critic can't say that as long as he is being professional of a review site of film. its will be unethical

its all opinions but has it ever occured to you opinions are formed based on some hard evidence.

for instance i have an opinion president donalrd trump is lieing cheat of a husband. its my opinion sure but i have sound and logical evidence to come to having that opinion.

opinions are not just opinions when there is good evidence to support your opinions like the case with captain marvel reviews. that mostly seem mediocre y the critics own words.

I hate the meme but...

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[Jayson1]

I think the idea of a professional film critic is they are suppose to have a more educated view on how movies are made. For example a pro is suppose to know if a movie has 3 acts for example or even know what a act is and sort of knows all the tricks and tools of how art is made.

That is the idea but I don't think it's always the case but I am guessing many critics got their jobs in the first place by first being paid writers or at least having some inside baseball knowledge of what is going on in the business. Still in the end none of that matters. My mom wouldn't know what act break is if I asked her a million times but she still likes tv shows and movies and not having the knowledge hasn't mattered. Then people of course know more than me and so forth with all of us..


Jason

 

[Dales]

Your opinion, such as it is, is to accept as valid the subjective opinions of others, the reviewers- the ones who confirm whatever opinion it is you have great trouble expressing and is uninformed as you haven't seen the movie.



You've provided nothing but the opinions of other people. Their opinions have no effect on any viewer's liking or disliking the film. They'll make that opinion themselves. You on the other hand have no opinion worth noting because it is an uninformed opinion


I hate the meme but...

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1. so what is your honest opinion about Spiderman 2 and black panther, of the two movies which had better visual effects?
2. what is your honest opinion about TDK and batman and robin , which is the better film?

if it is all opinions based on nothing like actual merit or real film analysis. I am curios to know your opinon

 

[SPCTRE]

 

[Awesome Possum]

1. so what is your honest opinion about Spiderman 2 and black panther, of the two movies which had better visual effects?
2. what is your honest opinion about TDK and batman and robin , which is the better film?

if it is all opinions based on nothing like actual merit or real film analysis. I am curios to know your opinon

1. They were made over a decade apart. SM2 was the top of the line when it came out. BP looks better because it was made when technology had improved. One isn’t better than the other.
2. I like TDK more, but that means nothing. It’s good, but has flaws like a lot of movies.

Film isn’t a science or math, it’s an art. Art is always going to be subjective. You also focus too much on comic book movies, there’s a lot more out there.

 

[Jayson1]

1. so what is your honest opinion about Spiderman 2 and black panther, of the two movies which had better visual effects?
2. what is your honest opinion about TDK and batman and robin , which is the better film?

if it is all opinions based on nothing like actual merit or real film analysis. I am curios to know your opinon

Are you trying to say a movie is good or bad in terms of whether or not the majority of people like it or not? I do think it's fair to say many movies have made more a mark on society as a whole than others to point where you have movies that are considered classics but human beings are individuals so what does that matter on a individual level?

How does that take in account that society changes and so do old views of old movies because sometimes even the classics stop holding up over time. Did you know "Birth of the Nation: back in it's day was considered a big hit and is even seen as important because some of the things Griffin did in terms of zooms and close-ups and editing. It's even one those movies they choose to preserve where every year new movies that are seen as important are selected.

Well try and get anyone to sit down and watch that movie today just for fun. Maybe at Klan rally but nowhere else except maybe a classroom that studies film history.. Then you got the silent films and the westerns. Who here when they feel a urge to watch a movie pull out their favorite silent film. Film critics even the best of them are still just individuals and even stuff they and we like, we might not still be liking in 10 to 20 years.

Jason