Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[The Habs Fan]

I’m also hoping for a Pike series. However, I do think there would be a change to Discovery’s setting if that were to happen as I can’t see two 23rd century shows about exploring space on at the same time. Maybe Discovery has a big time travel jump in its future and it stays there? Why Pike and Spock wouldn’t be on the ship during that incident is anybody’s guess though.

 

[Lord Garth]

For the entire time I've been a fan I thought the Federation and the Klingons being at war in the 23rd Century was normal. Which is why I never got people being up in arms about a Klingon War in Discovery. I don't want to get too much into it here because it's water under the bridge.

What I do want to mention is that I'm watching "The Emissary" (TNG). It's towards the beginning of the episode and K'Ehleyr talks about a Klingon Ship that had been in deep freeze for 75 years. Since "The Emissary" takes place in 2365, 75 years ago would be 2290. Between TFF and TUC. K'Ehleyr and Riker both mention the war between the Federation and the Klingons at that time.

Cutting and pasting the dialogue from the transcript below...

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K'Ehleyr: Two days ago, Starbase Three Three Six received an automated transmission from a Klingon ship, the T'Ong. That ship was sent out over seventy-five years ago.

Riker: When the Federation and the Klingon Empire were still at war.

K'Ehleyr: The message was directed to the Klingon High Command. It said only that the ship was returning home and was about to reach its awakening point.

Picard: Which suggests that the crew had been in cryogenic sleep for that long journey.

K'Ehleyr: Exactly.

Riker: And when this crew is revived?

K'Ehleyr: We'll have a ship full of Klingons who think the war is still going on.

Picard: So our task is to find the ship, and tell the Klingons they're no longer at war.

Riker: Why us? Wouldn't a Klingon ship be a better choice?

K'Ehleyr: A Klingon ship, the P'rang, is on its way, but it's two days behind us. That may be too late.

Troi: Why too late?

Riker: When the T'Ong crew awakens it will be within striking range of several Federation outposts.

Data: There are thirteen colonies with minimal defences in that sector.

K'Ehleyr: Nice, ripe targets for a Klingon warship.

Troi: And you believe you can convince these Klingons that the humans are now their allies?

K'Ehleyr: No, not a chance. If you ask me, talking will be a waste of time. Klingons of that era were raised to despise humans. We'll try diplomacy. But I promise you it won't work. And then you'll have to destroy them.

Picard: No.

K'Ehleyr: No? Captain, these Klingons are killers. You'll have no choice.

Picard: We shall find another choice. I want options and I want them before we encounter the Klingon ship. Lieutenant [Worf], I'm assigning you to help the Emissary. Dismissed.

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Then there's also the Klingon Ambassador's line from TVH: "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!"

"But what you're talking about is the Movie Era!" Yes, I am. But the hostile, warlike attitude is typical of 23rd Century Klingons in general, certainly Kor and Kang's in TOS, David Gerrold's description of them in 1973 in "The Making of Trek", and it fits how they're depicted in Discovery down to a T.

EDIT: I have to say K'Ehleyr is one of my favorite Klingons. We have the same temperament.

And they never, ever should've fired Ron Jones as a composer. That can't be said enough.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I remember seeing the following quote on the Internet ages ago and no longer remember where or who said it : “Nobody hates Star Trek more than Star Trek fans”

I've seen that quote before but it was about Star Wars fans instead of Star Trek fans

 

[Hythlodeus]

I've seen that quote before but it was about Star Wars fans instead of Star Trek fans

agreed, it was about Star Wars in my memory too. Nevertheless, that quote nowadays can easily be used for both franchises. And Doctor Who. And The Walking Dead. And DC movies. And about any frachise, really. Fans are the worst.

 

[Starbreaker]

I couldn't decide whether or not this is thread worthy or not, so I put it in here.

What are yalls speculations, rumors you've picked up, about the continuation of the Pike, Spock, Number One trio and the original Enterprise. I haven't as yet seen it mentioned in the future TV shows CBSAA is putting out. Do you think they'll remain characters on Discovery? If they do remain on Discovery, it seems a little "character crowded" for one series.

I'm hoping they'll get their own series, but in all honesty, we haven't seen enough of Spock to understand where "he is at" at this point.

CBS is really screwing up if they don't spin-off the Enterprise crew members into a TV show or some TV movies. The cast has been phenomenal so far.

 

[fireproof78]

"But what you're talking about is the Movie Era!" Yes, I am. But the hostile, warlike attitude is typical of 23rd Century Klingons in general, certainly Kor and Kang's in TOS, David Gerrold's description of them in 1973 in "The Making of Trek", and it fits how they're depicted in Discovery down to a T.

Precisely so. The Klingons have always been portrayed as valuing strength, dominance and aggressive behavior. Throughout the various Trek series, they have demonstrated infighting, willingness to engage in sabotage for further their own ends, and a wide variety of ritualistic behavior that demonstrates individual fortitude, ability, and dominance.

Far from being inconsistent with prior portrayals, Discovery demonstrates a willingness to expand upon the lore.

 

[USS Triumphant]

But nothing official or through unnamed reputable sources leads any credence to a Pike series. Depending on where his storyline goes, he could stay on Discovery awhile (not likely, but it is possible), cameo on the Section 31 show, or even star in the Starfleet Academy show if it's set a few years down the road.

Probably wouldn't last more than a couple seasons though.

Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm calling it now that even though DSC has been in the Prime up until this point, it's about to not be: temporal events are about to break the characters we are following away from leading to TOS. Mount-Pike isn't going to end up in the beep beep chair.

Riker: When the Federation and the Klingon Empire were still at war.

I don't think he meant open or declared warfare. I think he meant something more akin to the USSR and the US being in the Cold War - when the Federation and the Klingon Empire were using proxy wars, disavowed agents, and other means that skirt the edge of being actual casus belli to undermine one another and try to take the upper hand. YMMV, of course, but I feel like my interpretation was borne out by what we saw on screen even before DSC was conceived of.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't think he meant open or declared warfare. I think he meant something more akin to the USSR and the US being in the Cold War - when the Federation and the Klingon Empire were using proxy wars, disavowed agents, and other means that skirt the edge of being actual casus belli to undermine one another and try to take the upper hand. YMMV, of course, but I feel like my interpretation was borne out by what we saw on screen even before DSC was conceived of.

Cold with occasional flare-ups, that's how I've pictured it. I mean forget about DSC, this is basically what I've thought for 30 years. During the TSFS-TUC Era it looked like tensions were flaring up again. If you want to know how I really picture it, it's like this:

"Errand of Mercy" = The Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962
The Organian Peace Treaty = Detente

Peace Negotiations between the Federation and Klingon Empire* = SALT I and II from 1969 to 1979
* Referred to by Kruge and the Klingon Ambassador

TSFS/TVH = The Soviets invade Afghanistan in 1979 and Reagan is elected in 1980
"There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!" = The end of Detente

TUC and The Explosion of Praxis = Chernobyl in 1986
"People can be very frightened of change" and The Khitomer Peace Conference = "Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" and The end of the Cold War

With DSC, to retroactively keep this going and to place it into the '50s, I'd say The Klingon War is like The Korean War. The United States and South Korea are the Federation. The Soviet Union, China, and North Korea are the Klingons. The Klingons are in different factions but they all have being against the Federation in common. The Soviet Union and China** are also different factions but had being against the United States in common.

It's also very loose but, for me, it still works.

To add to it, The Korean War gets lost in shuffle because people talk more about World War II and The Vietnam War, so Korea becomes The Forgotten War. Meanwhile, you don't hear about the Klingon War in TOS et al, making it too The "Forgotten" War.

** And why not throw China in the Klingon mix? Even Spock told Kirk, "only Nixon can go to China." So Kirk's Nixon. Except he's not a crook... unless we're talking about when he stole those clothes in "City on the Edge of Forever".

 

[eschaton]

CBS is really screwing up if they don't spin-off the Enterprise crew members into a TV show or some TV movies. The cast has been phenomenal so far.

If the rumors about some sort of time jump at the end of this season are correct (I somewhat doubt they are) than the last real reason to *not* do a Pike spinoff goes away.

 

[Alan Roi]

I would not be opposed to the idea of a Pike Enterprise series. Mount is great, I love me some Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck seems a decent recasting. Year round Trek can only happen if there are enough series to make it happen. I certainly expect the color coded uniform and beige set crowd praise it no matter how and when it violates the worshipped Goddenberry Vision of Star Trek as they do with MacFarlane's TNG knockoff. Because, "Hey! Color Coded Uniforms! Beige sets!"

 

[JoeZhang]

If the rumors about some sort of time jump at the end of this season (I somewhat doubt they are)

That rumor exists *before* and *during* season 1 so I'm sure it's rubbish.

 

[Discofan]

...
** And why not throw China in the Klingon mix? Even Spock told Kirk, "only Nixon can go to China." So Kirk's Nixon. Except he's not a crook... unless we're talking about when he stole those clothes in "City on the Edge of Forever".

If Kirk is Nixon then who's Deep Throat?

 

[eschaton]

That rumor exists *before* and *during* season 1 so I'm sure it's rubbish.

The primary reason I doubt it's true is because the Georgiou series is supposed to only begin filming after DIS Season 3. This implies that Michelle Yeoh is supposed to have a role in Discovery next season. That doesn't make sense with a time jump - unless she came along, and if she did that, how would she get back to Section 31?

 

[Vger23]

I would not be opposed to the idea of a Pike Enterprise series. Mount is great, I love me some Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck seems a decent recasting. Year round Trek can only happen if there are enough series to make it happen. I certainly expect the color coded uniform and beige set crowd praise it no matter how and when it violates the worshipped Goddenberry Vision of Star Trek as they do with MacFarlane's TNG knockoff. Because, "Hey! Color Coded Uniforms! Beige sets!"

I wouldn't mind a Pike series, but I actually would prefer he stays with the Discovery for another season. They can establish Number One as a long term temporary captain of the Enterprise while she undergoes a major refit.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I would not be opposed to the idea of a Pike Enterprise series. Mount is great, I love me some Rebecca Romijn and Ethan Peck seems a decent recasting. Year round Trek can only happen if there are enough series to make it happen. I certainly expect the color coded uniform and beige set crowd praise it no matter how and when it violates the worshipped Goddenberry Vision of Star Trek as they do with MacFarlane's TNG knockoff. Because, "Hey! Color Coded Uniforms! Beige sets!"

Goddenberry.

* snicker *

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Finnish users, please come help me over there: https://bbs.io-tech.fi/threads/spac...eli-star-trek-ketju.3311/page-13#post-4612732

It seems like every other poster over there is a devoted fan of Midnights edge. Getting tired of Prime vs Canon debate. Or not even a debate, since how can you debate something so ridiculous?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Which is why I never got people being up in arms about a Klingon War in Discovery.

I can understand people getting shirty over a Klingon war but when those same people are cool with a certain fan production being all about Klingon War, is where I get lost.

 

[Hythlodeus]

I can understand people getting shirty over a Klingon war but when those same people are cool with a certain fan production being all about Klingon War, is where I get lost.

you see, the 4 years war is canon, because it's from an RPG sourcebook, but the Klingon war in DSC is not because it's from a canonical show.
It makes perfect sense.
Somehow.

 

[Discofan]

you see, the 4 years war is canon, because it's from an RPG sourcebook, but the Klingon war in DSC is not because it's from a canonical show.
It makes perfect sense.
Somehow.

I am sorry but what's RPG?

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I am sorry but what's RPG?

RPG = Role Playing Game.

What kind of nerd are you?