THE ORVILLE S2, E9: "IDENTITY, PART II"

[Mudd]

Yeah, I noticed that Isaac's blue accents aren't lights and don't deactivate.

These are some old-fashioned robots, aren't they? They don't even network and, presumably for the audience's sake they usually talk English even amongst themselves (the Kaylon guards being the obvious exception last night).

 

[Mudd]

Of course! Thank you! Sometimes you don't see the wood for the trees.
Okay, additional question. So are we to believe that Isaac really only got his change of heart when Ty pleaded with him? As it was pointed out, he already tried to save the Ensign. At the time I was thinking it was to show that he was undercover the whole time, playing along, just waiting for his time. But he only acted once he learned that they were or might have been able to get a message out? When he saw that there was a proper chance?

That is correct. There's no indication that he was ever really in agreement with the Kaylon plan, but he was also clearly unwilling to take what he knew was the necessary action until he concluded he had no choice whatever. Very likely, the instant he knew that he was opposed to the Primary he also knew that he could do only one thing, which would mean the destruction of the Primary and all the Kaylons he could reach.

 

[Zeppster]

Yeah, I noticed that Isaac's blue accents aren't lights and don't deactivate.

These are some old-fashioned robots, aren't they? They don't even network and, presumably for the audience's sake they usually talk English even amongst themselves (the Kaylon guards being the obvious exception last night.

They did occasionaly talk in some robot language to each other at times. But maybe they just downloaded all of the english language. I also always imagine when aliens talk to each other it's in their own languages. But for our sake it's in english because it's a TV show. In past Star Trek or other Sci Fi with aliens I always really thought that way. I hated for example in Discovery early on in a room of Klingons with the translated language under neath. It took it out of those scenes for me. Most times you only saw alien languages if a human was present.

 

[Mudd]

They did occasionaly talk in some robot language to each other at times. But maybe they just downloaded all of the english language. I also always imagine when aliens talk to each other it's in their own languages. But for our sake it's in english because it's a TV show. In past Star Trek or other Sci Fi with aliens I always really thought that way. I hated for example in Discovery early on in a room of Klingons with the translated language under neath. It took it out of those scenes for me.

Yeah, maybe these folks just watched the Klingons on STD and said "There is no fucking way, dudes."

 

[Phoenix219]

He was undercover.

The writers get extra points for not having Isaac acknowledge Ty's "I love you."

Isaac should have said "I know" when Ty said I love you Isaac.

 

[Phoenix219]

I enjoyed it even though it was mostly predictable.

Seth wrote part II instead of Brannon and Andre (who did part I).

Now we know why the early season 2 episodes were low scale. They saved the budget for this one.

I was disappointed Isaac was named after Newton. Even though Newton is more famous I was hoping for Asimov.

I think that is the actual joke - that he DIDN'T name himself after the obvious choice.

 

[Mudd]

I think that is the actual joke - that he DIDN'T name himself after the obvious choice.

Yeah.

When he first encountered humans, he considered naming himself in honor of the dead biological progenitors of Kaylon - "Bones," he later recalled, "Because all we have left are their bones."

 

[Noname Given]

Yep - called it:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-orville-s2-e8-identity-part-i.298354/page-10#post-12821260

Definitely the best episode they've done this season. That said, I can't get excited because it'll end up like TNG and either Isacc will do something - and in the last 5 minutes of next week's episode; the Cylon...er Kaylon invasion will be stopped cold (Hell, might even get the Krill involved.)

and

I also hope we get at least one Union Fleet VS Kaylons (with the obligatory Union Fleet wiped out, so I can at least get a dose of Starship porn out of all this.)

So yeah, I was happy with what they delivered overall. These two eps. were probably the best the show had done.

The above said - I still thought the 'humor' of Gordon going up and trying to get info by 'Small Talking' with the Kaylon Guard as well as all his references to the "Pee Corner" feel flat and just weren't humorous at all. (YMMV).

It was also interesting that the Orville Shuttle got away; but the other Union Ship that Ed gave the warning to with the "Thirteen Button Salute" hung around long enough for the Kaylons to blast it out of space (IE You'd think they'd have just jumped right into QD.)

Also, while I'm happy Issac survived and did redeem himself - I also have to ask why the Kaylon Prime didn't deactivate or limit whis movements him as soon as Issac started arguing to keep some Humans alive because their knowledge/experience is valuable - especially when EVERYTHING the Kaylons know about Union ships/technology they downloaded from the Orville's computers directly - and the fact that EVERYONE (Union and Krill, etc.) marvel at how MUCH more advanced Kaylon technology and Technical prowess is. I also have to wonder why Issac is was the ONLY post genocide Kaylon created. What, they never replace themselves in any capacity?

Another 9/10.

 

[Mudd]

It was baked into the story set up in the first hour that Isaac would save his shipmates - reinforced beat-by-beat.

 

[Phoenix219]

Even acknowledged it with the line about cliches.

 

[JD]

This was a great conclusion to the storyline. Even though I already guessed that Isaac's connection Ty would be what got him to change sides, I was still pretty happy with how it played out. They even built up to it a bit with his arguments with the Prime.
Yaphit's role here was great, it was nice to see him getting some heroic and serious moments. I loved him saving Ty, and I actually thought he might have actually been dead until he turned back up alive at the end.
Loved the battle at the end, and even though it was also predicted, the Krill showing up to help out was still a great moment. It will be very interesting to see what happens with them and the Union now. I wonder if we'll see Teleya again next week?
Really curious to see where they go with Isaac and his relationship with the crew now. It seemed like a lot of the Berman era Treks would do something like this with a character and then by the next week everything with them was back to normal, but so far The Orville seems a lot better about stuff like this actually having a lasting effect.

 

[Marc]

(IE You'd think they'd have just jumped right into QD.)

I think they had to come about for a clear heading otherwise they would of jumped to QD heading in the direction of the Kaylon fleet and that might have ended things even quicker.

Also with their Quantum Drive it might be necessary to be on your course before you make the jump. Might have missed it but don't recall anything that indicates they can change direction while travelling faster than light.

 

[Qonundrum]

The opening was good enough, Mercer stating they were kept alive for a reason. Surely not to tell the Union that Santa Claus is coming to town because that was an obvious ploy (Isaac knowing all the processes and secret pinky swear codes). Especially as, with the number of weapons spheres the Kaylon have, it's an obviously contrived situation.

What worked for me was the unexpected level of brutality from the Kaylons, making up for the plot cop-out to keep Mercer and crew alive as it was stated enough times in part one how much smarter the AI were and how biologics were already deemed unworthy. Isaac would be overruled by the unit in charge as well.

As far as an innovation on Cylons goes, aforementioned plot point aside, they're quite good. And suitably excessively creepy. Enough escape so maybe there will be future incursions and skirmishes. They're worthy and their design, especially with the weapons in their helmets, is fantastic and suitably creepy - I showed a friend who likes horror (she needs to see "In The Fold") and just the image I had shown freaked her out.

It's amazing how fast they got the fleet back for defense.

Keeping Isaac was nicely handled, even if they can "revive" his circuits (with an EMP, circuits are destroyed. Just one of many glossover convenience scenes that were underwhelming.)

pt 2 = 8/10 - would be lower except the show knew where to apply shock value to compensate for obviously weak and paint-by-numbers plot points.

pt 1 = 9.5/10 - apart from the bizarre cliffhanger of being kept alive despite the big setup that they hate every organic thing who isn't then with no exceptions, a planet that has a perfectly viable oxygen atmosphere despite total lack of trees that nobody commented on, etc, most of the nitpicks are at the tail end and the overall execution was sublime.

 

[Astra]

IMight have missed it but don't recall anything that indicates they can change direction while travelling faster than light.

I don't remember which episode but I remember someone in here pointing out how they once dropped out, turned around, and dropped back in and how that's doing it right.

 

[Qonundrum]

I see that many people guessing a simulation. Whatever the resolution is, I don't think Macfarlane will use something that has been done before. So I don't think it will be a simulation, or Kaylons getting a "sleep" command. Isaac somehow saving the day is possible though. It will be something creative, though not necessarily satisfying.

My belief was incorrect. I still would have preferred it. As the episode continued, it felt more and more by-the-numbers and pulling me out of the sense of threat. Primary telling Isaac he will always be alone felt hollow, Primary has more than enough lines that reiterate they didn't need to keep any human alive in the first place, if ships could be destroyed by the Kaylon weapons so quickly...

The moral themes of the story regarding Isaac and the Kaylon, humans and Krill, etc, make up for the cheesy cop-out story. It feels like proper sci-fi despite the comparatively weak plot.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Straight lines in space are hard because of all the gravity from planets and stars.

There are no planets and stars in "quantum space"?

Never mind.

 

[Trekker4747]

I don't remember which episode but I remember someone in here pointing out how they once dropped out, turned around, and dropped back in and how that's doing it right.

Second episode of the series, while Alara is in command (Bortus is on "leave" sitting on an egg in his quarters, Ed and Kelly have been captured) Alara, en-route to Earth, decides to ignore her orders from Union Command and attempt rescue of Ed and Kelly. We see the ship drop out of [warp] change direction and re-engage [warp.]

 

[Phoenix219]

Appears to be.

For some reason that appears to be a way to get around YouTube copyright claims.

 

[Phoenix219]

I thought this was a very fun two parter. Yes, it was very derivative of BOBW and ID4, but ultimately, it was a very good story.

What I would have liked to see different would have been the union putting up a better fight. Instead of losing ships at a rate of about 5 to 1, maybe losing at a rate of 3 to 2 or something a little closer. That way when the other fleet got there, they turned the tide. Here, it seemed more like they won the whole battle. I think the true statement that should have been made should have been that alone, neither fleet stood a chance, but together, they could win. That's kind of what happened, but I feel that the execution made the humans look weaker. In this battle, I would have also made sure that the the Earth fleet helped save the lives of Krill.

Let's face it--this show is basically Star Trek without the canon. The Krill were the Klingons here. The Kaylons were the Borg, and this was the battle of Wolf 359.

Only this time--we got to see it.

I think a braver choice would have been to NOT have Isaac "turn good" again.

I see the Krill as more of a Romulan/cardassian hybrid - the mochlans are clearly Klingons.

 

[Terok Nor]

That space battle was fucking epic!

I'm glad Isaac is still around and that there are consequences. He has no home and he may have lost some of the crew's trust. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

These two episodes were thrilling. Up there with some of my favourite Trek episodes. I don't care that it's not officially Trek. To me, it might as well be. Love this show!