THE ORVILLE S2, E9: "IDENTITY, PART II"

[Kirk Prime]

I thought this was a very fun two parter. Yes, it was very derivative of BOBW and ID4, but ultimately, it was a very good story.

What I would have liked to see different would have been the union putting up a better fight. Instead of losing ships at a rate of about 5 to 1, maybe losing at a rate of 3 to 2 or something a little closer. That way when the other fleet got there, they turned the tide. Here, it seemed more like they won the whole battle. I think the true statement that should have been made should have been that alone, neither fleet stood a chance, but together, they could win. That's kind of what happened, but I feel that the execution made the humans look weaker. In this battle, I would have also made sure that the the Earth fleet helped save the lives of Krill.

Let's face it--this show is basically Star Trek without the canon. The Krill were the Klingons here. The Kaylons were the Borg, and this was the battle of Wolf 359.

Only this time--we got to see it.

I think a braver choice would have been to NOT have Isaac "turn good" again.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I was genuinely moved by that. There was a lot going on.

Just as one example, what the Krill captain said: "Only Avis knows why," or whatever the exact words were, that was a perfectly authentic response for a Krill commander, as they'd been established.

Character authenticity held across the board; none of them came off as mere plot-advancement vehicles. At pretty much every turn, advancement of the story hinged upon character decisions, and that extended to consideration of the Kaylon as characters.

It cleared the bar of being better than "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II."

The space battle was good.

Impressively, the show made the transition to a high-stakes life-and-death struggle. When Talla got shot, given that Alara had been replaced, I had no idea whether she'd still be breathing. Yaphit was great. Especially given his history with Claire, it was awesome how he stepped up (uh, so to speak).

 

[Starfury]

No Enterprise in that fleet? Must have been on its way.

On Star Trek the Enterprise is always the only ship in range.
In the Orville-verse, the Enterprise is the only ship, never being in range

 

[Mudd]

It's certainly true that this was a much better hour of television in every respect than BOBW II , but that was nearly thirty years ago.

 

[ISS-Magnum]

 

[Mudd]

Oh, Gordon got a moment, didn't he? Fly the wings off that sucker, boy!

 

[Mudd]

The Orville goes big and goes home

“Identity Part 2” delivered both a level of spectacle and hard brutality that I honestly didn’t know the show had in it.

It's true that last night's space battle was far better than anything ever done for Star Trek on television but that's not a high bar - even in the movies Trek almost always does this terribly.* This kind of thing is not in Trek's DNA; it doesn't belong there.



*TWOK did a good job taking a completely different approach thanks to Meyer's dogged equation of the ships with 19th century and a family budget-conscious script.

 

[psCargile]

Had a lot of great feel good moments, but rested on tropes and safe outcomes a little too much. Kaylons may boast about their superior intelligence, but they are kind of stupid. Killing all biologicals because they might, given their pasts, enslave them is child's logic. It's immature thinking. Maybe that's the point. But if the Kaylon were super intelligent they would have had the strategic advantage and would have won easily. Maybe their builders were just as dumb. They weren't even smart enough to render the Orville crew unconscious until needed. They are walking calculators with speech and guns.

And space is a vacuum, there's not enough atoms and ions for a body to reach thermal equilibrium with. A human body will retain its heat until it radiates away. So can we stop that trope? Pretty please? Sugar on top? Too much to ask isn't it. I should know better.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And space is a vacuum, there's not enough atoms and ions for a body to reach thermal equilibrium with. A human body will retain its heat until it radiates away. So can we stop that trope? Pretty please? Sugar on top? Too much to ask isn't it. I should know better.

Yeah, that's wrong. Evaporation causes liquid water to freeze pretty quickly. It's been tested.

 

[Trekker4747]

The question I have at the end is, how did they distinguish Isaac from the others on the bridge at the end? They all looked the same to me once switched off. I was afraid they would dump them all together into a room and later not being able to tell which one is Isaac. I guess Ty told them where he was sitting.

The lenses on Isaac's joints and such were blue, everyone else was red/orange.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

They did a good job on that space battle, even if the outcome was a bit predictable and maybe a bit too easy.

The Kaylon's advantage over the humans and Krill was much more slight than we'd previously been led to believe, it looked like it was a greater difference than Dominion and Federation but it turned out less. And it felt like they should have been easily able to destroy the shuttle before it went to warp, and detected something was wrong on the Orville long before Ty made it to the shuttle bay.

But given we expect all that from the Orville anyway, good episode.

Anyone who expected an apocalyptic outcome where the few remaining Union ships go on the run, what show have you been watching?

 

[Brennyren]

Wow. I'm impressed with how the show did not back off the brutality of the premise. People died and stayed dead, the Union went on a different footing (and took a pasting), and their relationship with the Krill changed even as the Krill themselves did not change -- they concluded their alliance with the Union was the work of their deity. (And to think, just a few weeks ago Ed and Kelly were -- understandably -- uncomfortable with the Moclans!)

And Isaac's status has been forever changed. Not only is he isolated from his own people, but also at least some of the Orville crew (not to mention Union Central) are clearly not inclined to just forgive and forget. He's not completely innocent, and he's no longer "our little plastic pal who's fun to be with." And yet, he did save the ship and everyone aboard her.

Wow. This universe was always engaging, but now it's taken on a level of realism and complexity that I never really expected. I'm looking forward to seeing where we go from here.

 

[eschaton]

I was disappointed Isaac was named after Newton. Even though Newton is more famous I was hoping for Asimov.

That could still be the "off show" reason. Probably is honestly. But a Kaylon would find the Three Laws of Robotics offensive, so there's no way in hell they'd choose to name themselves after Isaac Asimov.

Had a lot of great feel good moments, but rested on tropes and safe outcomes a little too much. Kaylons may boast about their superior intelligence, but they are kind of stupid. Killing all biologicals because they might, given their pasts, enslave them is child's logic. It's immature thinking. Maybe that's the point. But if the Kaylon were super intelligent they would have had the strategic advantage and would have won easily. Maybe their builders were just as dumb. They weren't even smart enough to render the Orville crew unconscious until needed. They are walking calculators with speech and guns.

To be fair, we don't actually know the Kaylon are superior. They just think they are superior. Certainly they have advanced tech, but much of it may have been inherited from their creators.

 

[DarthPipes]

Great episode! Nice to see a second part stick the landing. Then again, having Seth write this and not Braga certainly helps. I'm glad there was no reset button here.

Epic battle...the show really went all out. If I had one problem, it was that there was so much going on that it made it difficult to follow everything. But I really liked the running firefight to Earth in particular.

The FX was fantastic and I loved every shot of the Orville with the Kaylon fleet in space.

I was pleasantly surprised to see Yaphit have such a big role and I hope he gets an episode one of these days. I like how Ty helped out but I'm not going to excuse his "Stupid Kid Syndrome" moment that nearly got Talla killed.

Any other problem? I'm very mixed on the fate of Isaac. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's still on the show and it makes sense to use him to plot a defense against the Kaylons. But I think he should be kept under lock and key and I don't see anything wrong with giving him an off switch. Excuse me if I don't trust Ed saying he'll take responsibility for Isaac. His instincts have shown to be pretty terrible at times.

Those issues aside, great episode and I can't wait to see more!

 

[Astra]

The lenses on Isaac's joints and such were blue, everyone else was red/orange.

Even when switched off? I thought it was just a blue light shining but the glass being white or something.
Would make for a fun scene though
"Switch this guy on" - "Nope, wrong one, next!"

 

[Mudd]

If it weren't for Braga and Bormanis's talented work on Part I, we wouldn't have all been waiting so anxiously for Part II.

The Isaac story worked out in the only way that makes sense for the show. Ed was correct, that trying to install an "off" switch in Isaac would simply prove the Kaylons' point that biologicals can not be trusted.

 

[eschaton]

Even when switched off? I thought it was just a blue light shining but the glass being white or something.

I think you're wrong, but even if not, their body armor is different. And Isaac has a "belt buckle" thing while the other Kaylon have a little button higher up integrated into their chest pad (more where a belly button would be).

 

[Mudd]

Killing all biologicals because they might, given their pasts, enslave them is child's logic. It's immature thinking.

No; it's logic without empathy. As a matter of unsympathetic logic, our history supports their view more than the humane one.

The Kaylons are gonna need a new Primary, although I imagine he's backed up to the cloud somewhere.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

No; it's logic without empathy. As a matter of unsympathetic logic, our history supports their view more than the humane one.

The Kaylons are gonna need a new Primary, although I imagine he's backed up to the cloud somewhere.

Yeah, their logic made some sense, it echoes the logic behind what they did in Ender’s Game. It is a nonzero possibility the humans would turn on them, no matter how close to zero to them is unacceptable risk. It makes me think of the Founders’ motives. They need to control all solids because solids’ past abuses might happen again otherwise.

Isaac’s reversal reminds me more of Teal’c than anything from Trek.

 

[Forbin]

One of my thoughts after last week's ep was, maybe, the Kaylon biological population wasn't simply murdered, but they all had their personalities implanted in the robots. So it wasn't so much genocide as transfer, but they still had to dispose of their former bodies. And maybe the fact of the transfers had been forgotten. I thought that would be an interesting twist.
Or not.