Origin of Mirror Universe?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

@Harper, why assume that the terms 'quantum reality' and 'universe' aren't synonymous? always thought they were the same.

Indeed, in Parallels, one of the alternate Datas says "Mr. Worf does not belong in our universe."

 

[E-DUB]

One of the chief causes of miscommunication is people using the same words but meaning the same thing with them.

To me, quantum reality and universe would mean the same thing. They could determine from a persons "quantum signature" that they were not native to their universe. A person from an altered timeline might remember historical events differently, but would have the same quantum signature.

The mirror universe was merely a different reality. Kirk and company could have been detected if technology to check "quantum signatures" were available at that time and if anybody had thought to check.

"Old" Alexander Rozhenko or "old" Arne Darvin would not have exhibited a different signature.

 

[Avro Arrow]

One of the chief causes of miscommunication is people using the same words but meaning the same thing with them.

This sentence is so deep, I think you just blew my mind!

 

[FormerLurker]

Let's have our cake and eat it too.* Different universes, alternate universes and different quantum realities are all the same thing. Each one has its own quantum signature. An altered timeline skews off from the original, creating its own quantum signature as it does, so any travel between universes can be detected by those that are looking for them. Kirk and company would have been detected because they were from a different quantum reality.

'Old' Alexander or 'old' Arne Darvin either would or wouldn't, depending on how time played out between now and the future they come from. But it's actually unlikely that they wouldn't, because of the theory that by coming back in time and at least attempting to make changes, they are creating a new alternate universe. Each change they make causes a new quantum signature to be created, and they actually have no guarantee that when they go forward they'll end up in the same universe they started from.



*That's actually supposed to be "Eat cake and have it too" but that's irrelevant.

 

[Hatshepsut]

We are living in the mirror universe. Right now.

The Guardian of Forever has shown itself to be sneaky before...

...2. With each transition, Worf is in a reality that is increasingly divergent from his core reality: ... A birthday party that doesn't exist...

I didn't think "City on the Edge of Forever" had a mirror universe, only a Hugo for the writing. If DS9 invoked the term in some way for the earlier episode, that would of course be called "anachronism."

The idea of quantum reality gets plenty of abuse even by relatively thoughtful science fiction. Copenhagen and Many Worlds were, after all, interpretations, not realities. Though I wouldn't mind attending a birthday party that doesn't exist, especially my own...

 

[Melakon]

*That's actually supposed to be "Eat cake and have it too" but that's irrelevant.

On the contrary, it's quite relevant. It was obviously a temporal quantum displacement creating an alternate universe.

 

[FormerLurker]

Zing!

The idea is that you can eat and enjoy your cake, and still have your piece of it when you're finished.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

The origin is it is just another universe that began with the big bang.

And when you think about it, there really is no such thing as an alternate universe, especially one that diverged from our own.

that is simply our centric thinking, the same kind of thinking that places us at the center of the universe because we think we so special that the universe revolves around us.

It was simply its own universe that developed at the time of the big bang.

 

[Mytran]

I didn't think "City on the Edge of Forever" had a mirror universe, only a Hugo for the writing.

Did anyone ever suggest that? The most that could have been said to happen in COETOF is that history was temporarily changed to one where the Enterprise just happened not to show up at the GOF planet (since the landing party couldn't contact the ship). Personally, I see the whole series of events as a self-sustaining temporal loop. But the "Mirror" universe/timeline is nothing to do with either of these views.

 

[DonIago]

^Well, or McCoy's actions caused himself and everyone on the planet at the time to jump to an alternate timeline where the Enterprise wasn't present.

No way to know for certain whether they returned to their original timeline or merely a close facsimile.

 

[Starborn Dragon]

Not really interpretations, just more along the lines of what if.

 

[Mytran]

No way to know for certain whether they returned to their original timeline or merely a close facsimile.

Well, except for the GOF loudly announcing "All is as it was before."

 

[F. King Daniel]

It doesn't fit with ENT canon, but I was always fond of the MU origin as presented in DC's "The Mirror Universe Saga" comic series - that Earth lost the Romulan War and was subjugated for awhile, leading to a much harsher humanity rising up, conquering their oppressors and then anyone else who stood in their way.

 

[DonIago]

No way to know for certain whether they returned to their original timeline or merely a close facsimile.

Well, except for the GOF loudly announcing "All is as it was before."

Eh, I'd still want to check quantum signatures.

 

[E-DUB]

I heard once, from an unremembered source, that the "tag end" of this episode was supposed to imply that the landing party might not have made it back to their own universe, but merely to one that was sufficiently similar as to be acceptable. This would have been similar to the ending of the original Bixby story (One Way Street) that was the concept source for "Mirror". They went with the Marlena ending instead.

 

[Hatshepsut]

I didn't think "City on the Edge of Forever" had a mirror universe...

Did anyone ever suggest that? ... Personally, I see the whole series of events as a self-sustaining temporal loop. But the "Mirror" universe/timeline is nothing to do with either of these views.

Thanks. Then I wasn't hearing things. And with a closed loop, the drunk gets to see Bones over and over again like one of those security camera reviews.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In any case, the alternate history in COTEOF diverges during the Depression, and the MU predates that.

 

[MANT!]

Watching the opening credits for "In a Mirror, Darkly" I always got the impression that the American Revolution resulted in an Empire of North America (the use of obviously US military stock footage for most of the Empire's Earth based period suggested this, as well as the "Tall Ships battle" segment near the beginning of the credits)


So maybe George Washington was killed before the Revolution ended,resulting in our first president being Benedict Arnold, who was more of the Napoleon type than "Gentleman George"..

 

[Phoenix219]

Let's have our cake and eat it too.* Different universes, alternate universes and different quantum realities are all the same thing. Each one has its own quantum signature. An altered timeline skews off from the original, creating its own quantum signature as it does, so any travel between universes can be detected by those that are looking for them. Kirk and company would have been detected because they were from a different quantum reality.

'Old' Alexander or 'old' Arne Darvin either would or wouldn't, depending on how time played out between now and the future they come from. But it's actually unlikely that they wouldn't, because of the theory that by coming back in time and at least attempting to make changes, they are creating a new alternate universe. Each change they make causes a new quantum signature to be created, and they actually have no guarantee that when they go forward they'll end up in the same universe they started from.



*That's actually supposed to be "Eat cake and have it too" but that's irrelevant.

I completely disagree. A quantum signature difference would indicate a physical, separate, pre existing alternate universe, while the same quantum signature would imply a timeline rewrite due to time travel in the SAME universe. Quantum Signatures would not be prone to changing. Thats the whole point of that being the identifier.

 

[thribs]

I like the idea that it was because of the Borg. Since they didn’t go back, Cochran’s thought the aliens who landed were invaders and killed them. Hence starting their Empire.