Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x03 - "Point of Light"

[Amaris]

Definitely a matter of taste. Still, that being said, it's not as though violence and horror weren't part of TOS, even if restrained by the limits of sixties TV. I just rewatched "The Galileo Seven" the other day and, sure enough, one redshirt gets impaled by a giant spear and another redshirt is apparently beaten to death by a giant caveman, albeit offscreen. And there's a whole lot of heated debate about whether it safe to bury the bodies, about how they're too heavy to be brought back to Enterprise, etc. It's fairly tame by modern standards, and would probably be gorier if filmed today, but it's not as though the Final Frontier was ever a sanitized utopia where death and brutality never happened. And, as noted, the Klingons have never been known for their delicate sensibilities and peaceful dispositions.

To my mind, sf and horror have been joined at the hip since Frankenstein at least, so I kinda expect them to overlap sometimes, as they often did on TOS. And, I admit, I've never really understood why people were so freaked-out by the ending of "Conspiracy." Had no one else seen Scanners?

And, yes, I love The Brain That Would Not Die and own it on DVD.

I avoid stuff like Scanners, and just about any other kind of horror/sci-fi combination. I think the somewhat cheesy nature of the special effects helped keep things on an even keel, though, but with modern CGI and SFX techniques, they can make that blood and gore look mighty real, and that's something I want to avoid. It doesn't even get into how my brain connects the severed head of the baby with the living baby I saw a few minutes prior.

I'm generally not the guy you want around for horror films of any caliber.

 

[dahj]

I like that Spock drew fanart as a kid.

 

[Kemaiku]

So...back to this shit again. 3, maybe 4.

 

[Rahul]

Well, that was...50 minutes of new DIS.

It was less good than the previosu two episodes. But overall, I liked most of it. Surprisingly - the parts I thought I would dislike the most (Klingons, MU Georgiou) were okay, wheras I really didn't like the never ending teasing and retconning of Spock! Who'd have thought that?

Summary
Okay. This episode had basically three completely unconnected plots - the Spock/red angel-mystery, Tilly's weird spore friend, and the main part of the episode: Picking up all the loose pieces from last seasons crappy Klingon war arc. What's a testament to the writers this season is - all of these plots felt like they had a clear story - a beginning, a middle, and an end - even though they were all part of (different!) ongoing storylines. Kudos!

I enjoyed the Tilly part the most, even though that was probably the shortest, and most "nugget of a serialized arc"-part. But the acting was damn amazing! The Burnham-Amanda-Pike arc was okay. I loved how they all worked together. Pike first trying the official way, but putting his personal loyalty to Spock above orders and politics. I love this Pike. But it was suuuuper weird to have three characters in a room that are all intimately familiar with Spock - while us, the viewer, are completely baffled who the hell THIS Spock is? It sure as hell ain't Nimoy or Quinto-Spock! It's basically a complete page-one re-write of Star Trek's famoust character. In a B-plot of a spin-off show. And I don't like that.

As for the Klingon arc: I thought it was surprisingly well done. I liked the results more than the plot itself. But even then - This was much, much better "insight" into Klingon politics than at any point during season 1 at all! I'm still not a fan - The make-up is still severly hindering the actors from acting, and MAN do I HATE the voice-modulation! Together with the prosthetic-teeth, I barely understood them! That was shit. But the main storyline was okay - typical Klingon stuff, and I really like all the subtle retooling they made to make them appear "Klingon" again.

Stuff I liked:

• Tilly's breakdown was DAMN well acted! Mary Wiseman's performance overall this episode had blown me away - especially since I thought she was becoming too over the top the last two episodes. I was positively shocked
• I love the "lie" that solved the Klingon conflict - that Kor "saved" L'Rell and gave his life to protect her, and to unite the Empire. That was a really clever solution!
• FUCKING MONGOL BEARDS. Those are truly Klingons again! Also, the change was adressed with just one, tiny line of dialogue. Perfect.
• The direction, especially the camera movements in the beginning, were very dynamic, almost JJTrek-like.
  
• The "spy"-stuff, S31 (which now is the regular Federation intelligence... yeah ) was surprisingly low-key. They helped to prop up L'Rell, to keep the peace. Not really the nice way, but considering how epic the Federation failed at the war, a drastic break of the prime directive that seemed realistic, given the scenario

Neutral observations:

• "Mother of Klingons", severed heads (severed BABY head!), close-up of Papa-Kor's guts splattered on the ground - this show really tries too hard to be GoT in space, right? I'm kinda' okaay with it - it was luckily MUCH turned down from the over-the-top gore of season 1. This was a more "realistic" look at the Klingons. Still... I'm not so sure about this in a Trek show? I don't know...
• The whole Baby-plotline was a bit weird - coming out of nowhere, having massive implications, and then end right there again. But well... it was a good "personal" Mcguffin...
• ENT's Augments' Klingon retcon has now been retconned? What? (Fan theory: These "human" Klingons are still around, L'Rell integrates them back into the Empire, they're suuuper loyal to her, and thus get disproportionally placed on the super advanced D7, and therefore repeatedly run into Kirk)

Stuff I really didn't like:

• The complete retcon of Spock's backstory - this is definitely not the same character from TOS. Which really is a shame. The forced Burnham-Spock connection really hurts this series a lot IMO! Conflicts in production design are easy to ignore. But whatever this series connection to TOS is - this is really not "prime" Spock. And that is a pitty. Also: Stop with the endless teasing. No one gives a shit about "just-another" Spock! Just show your damn version.
• The Klingon speech: Prosthetics, fake teeth, and fucking voice modulation. These are actors that aren't allowed to act. DIS reallly really has a BIG problems with aliens: The Tellarite, the Klingons, the make-up is really shit. Saru is the ONLY alien on the show that actually can act - and that's purely the genius of Doug Jones! Otherwise only humans (like last week) are capable of showing emotions on this show. That's a problem.
• Fucking MU Gergiou. I really, really liked Michelle Yeoh's acting. I adore her. And she has a lot of fun playing ham. And the "freaks are more fun"-attitude for a small ship with a mission is great. Really, this would be a great concept for a reformed villain. But fucking Space Hitler?? A CANNIBAL? Someone who ordered genocide(s!)? Now working for the Federation? Are they fucking kidding me? I'd watch that show if it were "Georgious's evil clone" or something. But spy adventures starring Hitler? What?

Overall though - I really enjoyed this episode for the most part. Not as much as the last two ones. But I think they did a really, really good job cleaning the Klingon-arc mess up, and I like the new (traditional) direction they are taking them. And the nuggets for this seasons main plot stay interesting. I'd give this episode a
7/10

 

[Lord Garth]

Here's a Section 31 Question...

Spoiler

I wonder what Tyler can bring to the table? He can speak the language and knows what Voq knows, but how much does Voq know? Probably more than anyone in Section 31 when it comes to the common street level, but that only goes so far.

 

[DaveyNY]

On the bright side, at least they didn't go through five or six episodes of Tilly keeping her "vision/hallucination" a secret from everyone else. I cannot stand that trope. It's infuriatingly frustrating and not effective dramatic storytelling.

But if it does bother you, then They really have achieved Their goal and it IS an effective story telling trope.
(I dislike it as well, but there's no denying it worked to bring about the desired reaction)

 

[DaveyNY]

So this is how they fix the continuity issues. S1 ep2 we saw a ship refered to as a D7 which looked way different than anything weve ever seen. Today we see a new ship its also called a D7 and it looks like the TOS version. Bald Klingons = at war, Hair = post war/peace time. Everybody in Starfleet uses holgraphic screens, Pike and starbase 5 commanders grandmother only use Viewscreens (many years later so does Kirk and many years after that all the way to Jean-luc - only viewscreens)
This is the worst show and needs to be cancelled. 1,Spock needs his mommy because of feelings? 2,TILLY is a fast runner. 3,Chancellor vs. Mother, Mother (now thats Klingon) 4, Emporess/31 is entrusted by Starfleet. 5, Klingon Monks.
ITS OVER, PLEASE CANCELL THIS ALTERNATE STAR TREK (STD)

It appears it's only over for you.
Perhaps you'll feel better watching something else, or maybe even getting out your Trek DVD's?

 

[Greg Cox]

I thought the two-bellybuttoned Mariette Hartley in Rodenberry's Genesis II was hot.
Honestly, that's all I remember about it.

That's pretty much all I remember, too.

That and Lurch . . ...

 

[XCV330]

Here's a Section 31 Question...

Spoiler

I wonder what Tyler can bring to the table? He can speak the language and knows what Voq knows, but how much does Voq know? Probably more than anyone in Section 31 when it comes to the common street level, but that only goes so far.

He said he can access all of Voq's memories. Just how much Voq knew is a good question. He was clearly an outsider to the Klingons but he was still there among TKuvma's supporters, he knew how to repair the ship of the dead, and there's no telling what he learned from L'Rells people prior to undergoing surgery.

 

[Kor]

Here's a Section 31 Question...

Spoiler

I wonder what Tyler can bring to the table? He can speak the language and knows what Voq knows, but how much does Voq know? Probably more than anyone in Section 31 when it comes to the common street level, but that only goes so far.

Spoiler

He was L'Rell's confidant, so he may have been privy to all kinds of state secrets and stuff that she entrusted to him.

Kor

 

[Tuskin38]

But fucking Space Hitler?? A CANNIBAL?

Can't you come up with something more original?

She's worse than Hitler.

 

[Saul]

So what I think is, Burham killed Spock's pet sehlat.

Lower rating for this episode because the payoff seems to be coming next week.

 

[Rahul]

It appears it's only over for you.
Perhaps you'll feel better watching something else, or maybe even getting out your Trek DVD's?

I think he's right regarding the D7: That really was an f-ed up mess in season 1. And this episode was clearly a stealthy retcon.

But he's wrong about all the rest: It was a really, really well done retcon: It conflicted with as little as possible of season 1 (only that one single "D7"-line), but brings the whole show closer to the rest of Trek. After the mess that season 1 was, this here feels A LOT like professional writers are at work! Great job!

 

[Rahul]

Can't you come up with something more original?

She's worse than Hitler.

Congratulations! "Worse than Hitler" is now a perfectly objective metric to be used inside a Star Trek show. You won. Everybody can go home. The Internet is over.

 

[eschaton]

I dunno if this is a valid criticism or not, but I feel like this episode displayed one of the big flaws of the first season: basically that the storyline doesn't seem to flow organically, and often elements are added either simply to get us to the predetermined destination or to just keep a given cast-member busy that week.

Like, as I said upthread, in terms of the overall arc, I'm not sure there was anything in the Klingon story which was really needed. Basically it seems to have been done to get Tyler off of Qonos and re-introduce Georgiou. It might have some later implications for L'Rell, since we know she's going to be featured in more episodes. But everything the A plot handled could just have been dealt with with a tiny sliver of later exposition as to their off-screen antics. It didn't need to be shown. This is sort of analogous to how in the first season L'Rell just sat in the brig for Act 2 because they needed her for the finale, or how the show kept on coming up excuses for keeping Tilly front and center every episode.

I'm not saying Trek has never done this before. It's widely considered the A/B plot format started because it became too unwieldy trying to have every TNG cast member featured in the plot of the week, so there was often "busy work." But older Trek had longer seasons, and more episodic elements, which meant there was enough room for this stuff. With a modern short arc-based show, every minute counts.

 

[Tuskin38]

Congratulations! "Worse than Hitler" is now a perfectly objective metric to be used inside a Star Trek show. You won. Everybody can go home. The Internet is over.

And I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[DaveyNY]

Well, I don't follow Mechanoid's logic that it's part of a case he's making for cancellation, and I suspect he's probably got ruder motives for his comment about Tilly, but I did laugh that Tilly stopped for almost a minute to talk to her little 'shroom friend while everyone else kept running and then she suddenly burst past them all to win at the end while setting her personal best time. She didn't even do the Road Runner blur of spinning legs or leave a puff of smoke or anything. Of course, she has the spores in her, so maybe she just spore drived it to the end. But nothing to get up at arms about, just a funny little moment.

Funny how there's always an asshole involved in that thought.

 

[Rahul]

I dunno if this is a valid criticism or not, but I feel like this episode displayed one of the big flaws of the first season: basically that the storyline doesn't seem to flow organically, and often elements are added either simply to get us to the predetermined destination or to just keep a given cast-member busy that week.

Like, as I said upthread, in terms of the overall arc, I'm not sure there was anything in the Klingon story which was really needed. Basically it seems to have been done to get Tyler off of Qonos and re-introduce Georgiou. It might have some later implications for L'Rell, since we know she's going to be featured in more episodes. But everything the A plot handled could just have been dealt with with a tiny sliver of later exposition as to their off-screen antics. It didn't need to be shown. This is sort of analogous to how in the first season L'Rell just sat in the brig for Act 2 because they needed her for the finale, or how the show kept on coming up excuses for keeping Tilly front and center every episode.

I'm not saying Trek has never done this before. It's widely considered the A/B plot format started because it became too unwieldy trying to have every TNG cast member featured in the plot of the week, so there was often "busy work." But older Trek had longer seasons, and more episodic elements, which meant there was enough room for this stuff. With a modern short arc-based show, every minute counts.

I agree. I think the Baby came pretty much out of left field, and I still don't entirely know what to think of it.
But overall, I think this was handled much, much better than in season 1.

One thing of note, though: The A-plot of this episode, the Klingon politic drama, is something we would have never seen in any other Trek show, as long as the main cast wasn't involved (like Picard). And it was something the other shows didn' really need to show either - it would have been pretty weird.

But considering the amount of screentime this plot had in season 1, it had to be picked up in season 2 again. And I think it was absolutely the right decision to have all that happen in a single episode as the A-plot, even if the main characters weren't really involved. The alternative would have been to sprinkle this entire storyline in pieces through short scenes over multiple episodes, like in season 1. And I vastly prefer how it was done here.

 

[StarMan]

I was disappointed by the first episode and encouraged somewhat by the second. I haven't been able to decide whether I really like this thing or not. Now, after this episode ... probably not. It's not terrible but it's a long way from being great. I *really* want to give it a fair chance as a Star Trek fan, but I feel detached from it. Every episode has been on the spectrum between bad to okay/good. Not one episode has stood out as "Damn! What an episode!". As much as I'd like this show to have more depth I just don't think it's going to happen if it hasn't happened already. Hope I'm proven wrong.

Anyway, on to the episode.

- Thank goodness I can understand the Klingons again minus subtitles.

- D7!

- "Klingons are growing their hair again." - was that really necessary? I think that would have been much better left unsaid.

- Section 31. I've been equivocating on them but... let's face it, in DS9 they must have had huge resources to operate as they did unchecked across The Federation. They just never lifted the veil to show us. So it could work, so long as we see them operate with surgical precision and not wield - as Bashir put it - "such a blunt instrument". To be fair, Georgiou's take down of the Klingons was pretty bloody precise.

 

[XCV330]

And I don't see what's wrong with that.

I don't see Empress Georgiou as SuperHitler. I'm not sure how anyone can. She was an absolute monarch from a culture that had always supported that system. She was raised in it. The odds were not very high she would suddenly support representational government and equal rights for all sentient species, especially the tasty ones or those who had foolishly resisted her government's inherent right to rule the Galaxy.

Hitler or any of the other great killers of the modern world knew better, even a hereditary monarch + genocidal maniac like King Leopold of Belgium. They might believe their own crap, but they certainly could have had access to differing views, and examples of other nations surviving without succuming to aggression and racial superiority.

Mirror Georgiou has a lot of adapting to do. She might never completely succeed in that, and she probably doesn't want to, but the fact she didn't kill herself is a pretty good sign she's resigned, for now at least, to living in this universe and making a go of it.