The Romulans

[C57D]

My comments are intended for TOS solely. IMHO the Roms of TNG+ and ENT bear very little resemblance to the original ones.
So, with only two episodes of any substance featuring Roms in TOS, plus a couple of cameo apperances, what exactly do we think we know about Roms?
They seem millitary and technologically weaker than both Feds and Klings, and, depending on your interpretation of the scale of the RNZ map, having only quite a small, isolated Empire. Although the dialogue in BoT about multiple campaigns suggest they are fighting someone during the pre-BoT peace with the Feds. Presumably in order to have obtained and then transported D7's they must have some sort of border with the Klings, so maybe they are the implied enemy? The "simple impulse" line from Scotty makes me assume that pre-BoT their ships were using fusion reactors to achieve warp speed which I presume is both inefficient fuel wise and regarding available warp speeds. Maybe thats why they bought/obtained MAM powered D7's to immediately strengthen the fleet and in the long term reverse engineer MAM tech.
They are honourable, but aggresive also, and fiercely protect the RNZ from Fed incursions while happily violating it themselves - so maybe not SO honorable . Their passive-aggressive use of the cloak as a sneaky super weapon supports this and also that they are militarily weak and not able to conduct a direct fight?
Off to work now and more thoughts later.

 

[Phaser Two]

Good thoughts. We also know that they don't take prisoners.

I liked that they were a largely undefined mystery threat. I could have done without The Enterprise Incident as a whole except for the fun stuff involving the cloaking device, but I suppose it did advance the ball a bit. Nothing about the Romulans in TEI conveys them as militarily weak as far as I can see. I would have loved to get an in-universe explanation for the sharing of designs with the Klingons, though.

 

[Timo]

So, with only two episodes of any substance featuring Roms in TOS, plus a couple of cameo apperances, what exactly do we think we know about Roms?

Very little. Which is good for future use, even if none happens yet within the confines of TOS.

They seem military and technologically weaker than both Feds and Klings, and, depending on your interpretation of the scale of the RNZ map, having only quite a small, isolated Empire.

Intriguingly, we don't know which side (if either) won that old conflict. We see the barbed wire fence erected there, and the machine gun towers on the UFP side, but are there similar towers on the Romulan side?

Although the dialogue in BoT about multiple campaigns suggest they are fighting someone during the pre-BoT peace with the Feds.

Or, considering how TOS establishes that Vulcanoid men looking like the Romulan Commander here are a century old, these aliens might have been the very same who once killed Stileses left and right.

Presumably in order to have obtained and then transported D7's they must have some sort of border with the Klings, so maybe they are the implied enemy?

Or, considering how the insidious invisible ship invasion never led to anything despite being such a splendid success, we might jump to the TNG conclusion based on TOS material alone - perhaps the Romulans are quite timid, but OTOH very willing to cover their backs and shift blame? That they are "operating ships of Klingon design" might mean they are building those, to fool people into thinking it's the Klingons who are doing this stuff? This need not involve actual direct Romulan-Klingon conflict; some unrelated third party might serve better as the fall guy.

The "simple impulse" line from Scotty makes me assume that pre-BoT their ships were using fusion reactors to achieve warp speed which I presume is both inefficient fuel wise and regarding available warp speeds. Maybe thats why they bought/obtained MAM powered D7's to immediately strengthen the fleet and in the long term reverse engineer MAM tech.

Might also be Scotty was speaking out of his plasma manifold. After all, the "we can run rings around them" boast never really materializes in the subsequent chase. Why should our heroic engineer be capable of telling what an invisible ship can or cannot do?

They are honourable, but aggressive also, and fiercely protect the RNZ from Fed incursions while happily violating it themselves - so maybe not SO honorable.

Honorable how? They sleep with the enemy, disobey direct orders, undermine the efforts of their superiors, and generally backstab each other. And never mind their sneak attacks and entrapment and striking against missions of mercy and whatnot. Is TAS included here? "Practical Joker" has them as predators at the RNZ, not merely as overeager protectors.

We also know that they don't take prisoners.

Where is this from? They certainly do in "The Enterprise Incident".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nerys Myk]

They seem millitary and technologically weaker than both Feds and Klings, and, depending on your interpretation of the scale of the RNZ map, having only quite a small, isolated Empire. Although the dialogue in BoT about multiple campaigns suggest they are fighting someone during the pre-BoT peace with the Feds. Presumably in order to have obtained and then transported D7's they must have some sort of border with the Klings, so maybe they are the implied enemy?

Both the cloak and the plasma weapon would seem to indicate that in some areas they have superior technology. They pretty much obliterated the Earth outposts, reducing them to rubble and transforming rodinium ( the hardest substance known to UFP science) into something as fragile as an eggshell.
Hard to judge what their military ability is. They gave one of Starfleet's top of the line ships a run for it's money.

The "simple impulse" line from Scotty makes me assume that pre-BoT their ships were using fusion reactors to achieve warp speed which I presume is both inefficient fuel wise and regarding available warp speeds. Maybe thats why they bought/obtained MAM powered D7's to immediately strengthen the fleet and in the long term reverse engineer MAM tech.

The ship encounter by the Enterprise would appear to be some sort of scouting vessel, designed to test weapons and the Federation's resolve. It may not be the Romulans equivalent to a Connie.
I think we can dismiss Scottyls use of "impulse"as meaning the same thing as Starfleet's fusion based impulse engine. What ever he means, the only conclusion is they aren't as fast as the Enterprise. Though I don't recall the Enterprise pushing this advantage.

They are honourable, but aggresive also, and fiercely protect the RNZ from Fed incursions while happily violating it themselves - so maybe not SO honorable . Their passive-aggressive use of the cloak as a sneaky super weapon supports this and also that they are militarily weak and not able to conduct a direct fight?

Humans and by extension the Federation, saw the Romulans as warlike, cruel and treacherous. Not exactly the recipe for honor. Where does the honor thing come from anyway?

 

[F. King Daniel]

A faction of Vulcans, an early lost colony that still practised the pre-Surak ways. A small territory of two planets, surrounded by the neutral zone, and sublight ships. Later they strike an alliance with Klingons for better ships.

And of course, cut from the original "Balance of Terror" script, the Romulan ship wad based on old Earth designs, hence the saucer and nacelles.

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

Where is this from? They certainly do in "The Enterprise Incident".

Timo Saloniemi

It was a throwaway line that Chekov said when they were battling the Romulans in "The Deadly Years."

 

[Timo]

...Quite at odds with the reality. Then again, so was Kirk's ST2 line about Klingons not taking prisoners (as he himself had been one, and none the worse for the wear!).

It's easy to see Kirk making a joke about demonizing of this sort. And it's easy to see the writers of "Deadly Years" checking up on any villains they could use; choosing the Romulans; checking up on them; and finding out they e.g. took no captives in the old war. But of course humans took no captives in that old war, either!

In-universe, then, Chekov just appears to be jumping to conclusions. Which is understandable and excusable in the specific case of Chekov, if not otherwise.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[johnnybear]

I've always thought the Romulan Centurion's line about all those campaigns that he and the Commander had been involved with could refer to Romulan colonies that had tried to break away from the Praetor's rule or maybe even a Reman revolution on the sister planet?
JB

 

[Guy Gardener]

Looking at the Map from Balance of Terror.

That's not Reemus.

"Romii"

Rom Two or Rom-eye or Rom-My?

Also, according to that map, there are fricking Stars between Romulus and Romii, so that map can't have ever been about two planets in the same star system.

Sigh.

 

[johnnybear]

Yep, I picked up on the Rom II thing years back and either it means Romulus two or it's Remus and is just a code for that planet! Spock mentions the two planets of Romulus and Remus for the first and only time in TOS so Rom II must mean Remus and the guys that designed the map weren't aware of this!
JB

 

[BK613]

Yep, I picked up on the Rom II thing years back and either it means Romulus two or it's Remus and is just a code for that planet! Spock mentions the two planets of Romulus and Remus for the first and only time in TOS so Rom II must mean Remus and the guys that designed the map weren't aware of this!
JB

There is no space between "ROM" and "II".

It could be an undocumented easter egg, since Romii (Romans) was a self-referential name used by the Greeks of the Eastern Roman Empire (aka the Byzantine Empire.) It was still in use up till the 19th century, when nationalistic fervor of newly-formed Greece pushed for all things Graeco.

Could be a hellava coincidence, too.

 

[uniderth]

"Romii"
Rom Two or Rom-eye or Rom-My?

Yep, I picked up on the Rom II thing years back and either it means Romulus two or it's Remus and is just a code for that planet! Spock mentions the two planets of Romulus and Remus for the first and only time in TOS so Rom II must mean Remus and the guys that designed the map weren't aware of this!
JB

I'm going with "Rom-eye" on this one. Perhaps it's a significant second homeworld or something. Tons of great story potential there.

Though I'm of the opinoin that the name Romulus and Remus are names Humans gave to these planets. Just like Vulcan is probably a name bestowed by humans.

 

[C57D]

I have always assumed that Romii was the second (after Romulus) major Romulan fleet base during the Earth-Romulan war.
And Romiiii+ major fleet bases just didn't survive Earth fleet strikes during said war!

 

[johnnybear]

JB

There is no space between "ROM" and "II".

It could be an undocumented easter egg, since Romii (Romans) was a self-referential name used by the Greeks of the Eastern Roman Empire (aka the Byzantine Empire.) It was still in use up till the 19th century, when nationalistic fervor of newly-formed Greece pushed for all things Graeco.

Could be a hellava coincidence, too.

I think you're getting confused with Guy's post above mine, BK, as I never said there were any stars between the two planets, mate!

 

[BK613]

Yep, I picked up on the Rom II thing years
JB

JB

I think you're getting confused with Guy's post above mine, BK, as I never said there were any stars between the two planets, mate!

I should have bolded it. It's ROMII (no space) on the BoT map, not ROM II (with space).

And FWIW, my understanding is the Greek word is pronounced RAHM-EE-EE

 

[F. King Daniel]

It just means their "star empire" consists of 2 star systems. Which is understandable if their ships are sublight.

The "Balance of Terror" Bird of Prey could have been in transit to those border outposts for decades. Good thing they have Vulcan lifespans.

 

[uniderth]

It just means their "star empire" consists of 2 star systems. Which is understandable if their ships are sublight.

The "Balance of Terror" Bird of Prey could have been in transit to those border outposts for decades. Good thing they have Vulcan lifespans.

But if they have Pon Farr like Vulcanians then the couldn't be away from their home world for more than seven years. That also shows just how difficult it would be to start an offworld colony for Vulcanians and their offshoots.

 

[J.T.B.]

I assume the Romulans are on a more-or-less equal footing with the Federation. For whatever reasons, in the BoP they have prioritized the cloak and the super beam and made tradeoffs in size, speed and "conventional" weaponry. And it almost succeeds in its mission.

As for the previous campaigns, I figured they were "internal" to the Empire, conquering new worlds or suppressing insurrections.

It just means their "star empire" consists of 2 star systems. Which is understandable if their ships are sublight.

The "Balance of Terror" Bird of Prey could have been in transit to those border outposts for decades. Good thing they have Vulcan lifespans.

Maybe, but the scale of the map doesn't really support attacking two outposts in an hour at sublight, either.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It just means their "star empire" consists of 2 star systems. Which is understandable if their ships are sublight.

The "Balance of Terror" Bird of Prey could have been in transit to those border outposts for decades. Good thing they have Vulcan lifespans.

How did they conduct a war with a warp capable species with any degree of success, if they could only travel at sub-light? How did the participants even encounter each other and supply their fleets at sub-light?

 

[F. King Daniel]

How did they conduct a war with a warp capable species with any degree of success, if they could only travel at sub-light? How did the participants even encounter each other and supply their fleets at sub-light?

You might wish to ask the writers of "Balance of Terror"