Case dismissed! Discovery and Tardigrade game "not similar"

[DaveyNY]

I rather doubt that The Orville is going to take anything away from Trek, no matter how DISCOVERY does.

If anything it'll just add to people's fond memories of Trek.

I watch both and I'm really excited that there are Three fairly upbeat Sci-Fi shows around now that I can enjoy.
(DIscovery/Orville/Nu-Lost in Space)

Most other space shows out there have too much gloom & doom in them for me.
(I have absolutely no interest in Netflix' Night flyers)

 

[mos6507]

I rather doubt that The Orville is going to take anything away from Trek, no matter how DISCOVERY does.

It already has. This discussion would not even be taking place if it hadn't been eating into Trek mindshare. It's not just another generic sci-fi show. It is designed specifically to satisfy Trek fans. In fact, this is probably the reason for the humor in the DSC season 2 trailer (which doesn't appear to be filtering much into the season itself based on the newest trailer) and perhaps also led to greenlighting the Picard show. Subverting expectations and messing with canon has turned out not to be a successful way to nurture the brand.

 

[DaveyNY]

It already has. This discussion would not even be taking place if it hadn't been eating into Trek mindshare. It's not just another generic sci-fi show. It is designed specifically to satisfy Trek fans. In fact, this is probably the reason for the humor in the DSC season 2 trailer (which doesn't appear to be filtering much into the season itself based on the newest trailer) and perhaps also led to greelighting the Picard show. Subverting expectations and messing with canon has turned out not to be a successful way to nurture the brand.

Yet ... he we are all talking about it (with a big resurgence of TrekBBS activity) and it's in the top 10 of Netflix's most watched series.
Go figure...

 

[mos6507]

it's in the top 10 of Netflix's most hate-watched series.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[DaveyNY]

Fixed it for ya.

Yes, well that is only based on folks who are willing to take the time to rate the show, NOT on how many folks are actually putting their eyes on it.

Nice try though.

There were some statistics posted online by a reputable demography company not too long ago that completely back up what I said above.

 

[fireproof78]

It already has. This discussion would not even be taking place if it hadn't been eating into Trek mindshare. It's not just another generic sci-fi show. It is designed specifically to satisfy Trek fans. In fact, this is probably the reason for the humor in the DSC season 2 trailer (which doesn't appear to be filtering much into the season itself based on the newest trailer) and perhaps also led to greenlighting the Picard show. Subverting expectations and messing with canon has turned out not to be a successful way to nurture the brand.

It's a little early for such a judgement. The brand could be nurtured along as they work in new concepts and develop current characters. Including humor in to a trailer is hardly indicative of that. Humor in trailers has been there for a while now, and is nothing new for shows in general, and Star Trek is no exception.

This discussion would absolutely be taking place because it is science fiction and we must compare all science fiction properties for our meritocracy based culture.

 

[starsuperion]

Yes, well that is only based on folks who are willing to take the time to rate the show, NOT on how many folks are actually putting their eyes on it.

Nice try though.

There were some statistics posted online by a reputable demography company not too long ago that completely back up what I said above.

LMAO I love to sail DENILE too! Good one. Can you post the link to the reputable statistics company, so I can see what they have? I'd love to get some "real" numbers to look at.

 

[Tuskin38]

Oh, please. They copy everything from TNG down to the beige decor and even employ many ex-Trek actors and crew. It causes confusion in the marketplace by being (successfully) positioned as more retro/optimistic counter-programming to the grimdark Discovery. Nobody in the press writes about The Orville without also mentioning Trek. The show exists in order for Seth to live out his Trek fantasies in a way that he's been quite open about. There's really nothing original about The Orville other than its attempt to fold in humor. I'm speaking as a fan but from a legal perspective CBS would have had a stronger case against Seth than the Tardigrade guy has with CBS. And if you want to find 1:1 parallels, besides Seth playing Kirk, Isaac is a complete rip of Data down to the vocal inflections and the Bortus is Worf.

You’re completely wrong.

Orville is inspired by Trek but it isn’t ripping it off or copying it directly.

LMAO I love to sail DENILE too! Good one. Can you post the link to the reputable statistics company, so I can see what they have? I'd love to get some "real" numbers to look at.

Any source that gives favourable numbers for DSC you’ll disagree with even if it legit.

Also Dave here isn’t sone blind DSC fan. They’re not in denial.

Go back to what ever hole you crawled out of.

 

[Tenacity]

Any source that gives favourable numbers for DSC you’ll disagree with even if it legit.

And what source would that be, you can come up with one right?

 

[Tuskin38]

And what source would that be, you can come up with one right?

There’s was a thread on it somewhere in the last 2 months they can find it themselves. Besides they’re asking Dave for a source not me.

 

[fireproof78]

And what source would that be, you can come up with one right?

Most watched on Netflix in 2017: https://media.netflix.com/en/press-releases/2017-on-netflix-a-year-in-bingeing

Parrot Analytics has numbers as well regarding the success the show has been for CBS All Access: https://www.parrotanalytics.com/pre...continues-to-be-a-big-win-for-cbs-all-access/

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Most watched on Netflix in 2017: https://media.netflix.com/en/press-releases/2017-on-netflix-a-year-in-bingeing

From that article, the applicable methodology for "The Shows That Brought Us Together in 2017," which is the category that DISCO ranked in:

"5 Based on more than 60,000 survey responses from Netflix members between October 24-30, 2017. The sample is representative of an adult population who watch TV shows with their family in 32 countries. The survey included new show or new season launches of Netflix originals from November 1, 2016 - November 1, 2017 only."​

The "average daily viewing hours per member" was part of the data used to rank "The Shows We Devoured in 2017" and "The Shows We Savored in 2017" only, and DISCO did not rank in the top ten of either of those, so we have no idea how much it was viewed. More info on how those categories are determined is at https://media.netflix.com/en/press-...eals-tv-series-we-devour-and-those-we-savor-1. The short version is that it's based on how fast one binges the whole series/season, faster or slower; incomplete viewing doesn't trigger a tally.

 

[mos6507]

You’re completely wrong.
Orville is inspired by Trek but it isn’t ripping it off or copying it directly.

You're talking about something that is largely subjective so there's no basis to say I'm "completely wrong". But I think you'll find your opinion is in the minority. Whether Orville is legally in the clear is one thing but from the public opinion perspective it is derivative to the point of openly plagiaristic. The only thing The Orville chose not to bring over are the transporters. I mean, I like the show but I don't respect its filing off of the serial numbers anymore than I do the filing off that Renegades did last-minute after the guidelines were issued. If Seth wanted to do Star Trek he should have pitched CBS. Consider that the animated Trek is going to be comedic so that wasn't out of the question in retrospect.

BTW, the criteria used here as to whether something is a copy or not is way too specific. Who gives a crap if the tardigrade is blue or gray? It's still a tardigrade. Every minute surface detail does not have to be identical for something to be a ripoff. Changing a name of something that is, underneath it all, the same thing, is by definition a ripoff.

A Spock by any other name, is still a Spock.

 

[fireproof78]

Does that make Spock a elf?

And elf by any other name.

 

[Tenacity]

Q isn't a wizard, more a uncaring demon.

 

[Dukhat]

The Orville was meant to be a parody of TNG. It wasn’t ripping anything off. By that logic, Galaxy Quest was a blatant ripoff of TOS.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Whether Orville is legally in the clear is one thing

The title of this thread is "It's going to court!" It's about whether Discovery is legally in the clear.

 

[Noname Given]

The Orville was meant to be a parody of TNG. It wasn’t ripping anything off. By that logic, Galaxy Quest was a blatant ripoff of TOS.

Actually, if you go by what Seth MacFarlane was saying after the show's premiere it was ANYTHING BUT a parody. To him it was a homage to Star trek with some humor added in.

That why some reviewers had an issue with parts of it as they were EXPECTING a full blown parody, and it was anything but that.

'Galaxy Quest" was a send up of practically every Star Trek trope (plus Star Trek Convention tropes.) It was a parody/send up.

 

[Dukhat]

Actually, if you go by what Seth MacFarlane was saying after the show's premiere it was ANYTHING BUT a parody. To him it was a homage to Star trek with some humor added in.

That why some reviewers had an issue with parts of it as they were EXPECTING a full blown parody, and it was anything but that.

'galaxy Quest" was a send up of practically every Star Trek trope (plus Star Trek Convention tropes.) It was a parody/send up.

I’ll defer to your knowledge. I myself have never seen a single episode of The Orville, but based on all the commercials I saw for it, it seemed to be a parody of TNG with stupid annoying jokes that were masquerading as actual humor. And this comes from someone who loved Family Guy and American Dad.

 

[Takeru]

Fixed it for ya.

Is there a reason you decided to take screenshots that don't show the critics' score? Is it because Discovery got 82% fresh while The Orville is 26% rotten?

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s01
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/orville/s01

And before you ask "Who cares about critics?", we all do as long as they agree with us, then their opinion is paraded around and slapped on DVD covers, it's only when they don't agree with us that "What do critics know?" or "It's for the audience!" comes into play.

And while I don't blindly trust critics (and have liked things most critics disliked and vice versa) they always tell me why they like or didn't like it in their reviews, most fans don't. Look it up on RT, most fan reviews are empty except for the score, very few actually make an effort.

About The Orville specifically: It's easy to see why most fans seem to like it while most critics do not. Critics dislike it because it's derivative of TNG, an old fashioned, cheesy sci-fi show where everything feels like it has been done before. Fans like it because it's derivative of TNG, an old fashioned, cheesy sci-fi show where everything feels like it has been done before.

Like it as much as you want (I certainly like it for what it is) but don't pretend it's anything but a TNG clone, it's not like Seth MacFarlane ever hid the fact that he's a HUGE Star Trek nerd, he's basically one of us except that he's a powerful producer/writer/actor in Hollywood.

The Orville was meant to be a parody of TNG.

Nope, all the sci-fi tropes are played completely straight, the humor is clearly an afterthought and was probably demanded by Fox, but it is never directed at TNG, it's style, trappings etc., it's like MacFarlane wrote a love letter to TNG and then the post office said he can only send it if he puts a fart joke on the envelope.