To Mildly Go Hither And Yawn. ;)

[Rahul]

Isn't that more of them trying to correct for Fuller leaving?

They'd also been saying for a while during the airing that the war wouldn't end for more than that season.

Yes and no.
Yes - considering all the pre-production that was done under Fuller, the new creative team had no choice other than to have their story focus on the klingon war and the Mirror Universe, using all the Fuller characters and -designs (for klingons and their props/ships).

No - What the show actually turned out, was completely the new teams' story: The first two episodes were already heavily rewritten, Meyer's original third episode completely tossed out, and everything from the 3rd episode onwards made by the new team. Assets that the new team came up with (Mirror Georgious giant starship and the crammed "palace"-set) were all notably "cheap" looking, probably because they were designed so late, on such a short notice, and with a majority of the budget already gone. And the story arc - the thing the show is most critizised for - is 100% the new teams creation.


And yes, right from the start they said the "Klingon war" would only last for one season. But a successfull show doesn't need to distance itself from itself this hard. "Game of Thrones" season 2 feels very much like season 1, even though it treats an entirely different storyarc, the main character is gone, and now features a major war. "True Detective" season 2 is noticeably close to season 1, despite featuring an entirely new cast.

DIS on the other hand did not just do a complete 180° on the Klingon designs - basically throwing each of their changes out to return to the traditional look - and brough in the BIG guns (Enterprise, Spock, traditional TOS imagery), they also completely reversed the tone and the style of the show: From super serious, to super lighthearted, now featuring pop-rock-songs, and they stole "The Orvilles" elavator gag - for their trailer.

That's BIG changes. Changes I'm BTW super happy for! But they're not just correcting Fuller - they basically rebooted their own work as well.

 

[Greg Cox]

Just wait until they introduce a mop-topped "Beatles" lookalike to boost ratings.

 

[Tuskin38]

DIS on the other hand did not just do a complete 180° on the Klingon designs - basically throwing each of their changes out to return to the traditional look

The only place they've really done this is the D7

The trailer showed Season 1 style Klingon clothing and weapons, and the make-up, at least on the Klingons other than L'Rell, is essentially the same with some hair on it.

 

[Rahul]

The only place they've really done this is the D7

The trailer showed Season 1 style Klingon clothing and weapons, and the make-up, at least on the Klingons other than L'Rell, is essentially the same with some hair on it.

There are only two klingons in the promos - L'Rell, and the whie haired Klingon. Both are a massive departure from their season 1 look. The D7 even more crass.

 

[fireproof78]

So, in essence-Discovery is dead. Long live Discovery.

 

[Tuskin38]

Both are a massive departure from their season 1 look.

I disagree, he looks just like a S1 Klingon, just with hair. He's also wearing S1 House of Kor style armour. Same red makeup as Kol.

Voq'ler (Ty'Voq?) has a S1 Mek'leth (as does Mr. white hair Klingon, on his belt)

L'Rell had her skin tone changed, and the make up around the mouth lighted up, but other then that she's not that much different from how she appeared in the Season 1 finale.

The only real major change to their aesthetic we've seen so far is the D7.

Also there are 2 other Klingons in the trailer, we just can't see their heads.

 

[KennyB]

From super serious, to super lighthearted, now featuring pop-rock-songs, and they stile "The Orvilles" elavator gag - for their trailer.

It is a trailer............I doubt VERY seriously that the season is a lighthearted romp. As for the elevator gag.......Seth is hardly the first person to do elevator jokes so don't call it "The Orville's"........shit man The Orville has stolen its whole damn show from Trek.

 

[GNDN18]

Just wait until they introduce a mop-topped "Beatles" lookalike to boost ratings.

 

[Vger23]

It is a trailer............I doubt VERY seriously that the season is a lighthearted romp. As for the elevator gag.......Seth is hardly the first person to do elevator jokes so don't call it "The Orville's"........shit man The Orville has stolen its whole damn show from Trek.

T
R
U
E

D
A
T

 

[Vger23]

Yes and no.
Yes - considering all the pre-production that was done under Fuller, the new creative team had no choice other than to have their story focus on the klingon war and the Mirror Universe, using all the Fuller characters and -designs (for klingons and their props/ships).

No - What the show actually turned out, was completely the new teams' story: The first two episodes were already heavily rewritten, Meyer's original third episode completely tossed out, and everything from the 3rd episode onwards made by the new team. Assets that the new team came up with (Mirror Georgious giant starship and the crammed "palace"-set) were all notably "cheap" looking, probably because they were designed so late, on such a short notice, and with a majority of the budget already gone. And the story arc - the thing the show is most critizised for - is 100% the new teams creation.


And yes, right from the start they said the "Klingon war" would only last for one season. But a successfull show doesn't need to distance itself from itself this hard. "Game of Thrones" season 2 feels very much like season 1, even though it treats an entirely different storyarc, the main character is gone, and now features a major war. "True Detective" season 2 is noticeably close to season 1, despite featuring an entirely new cast.

DIS on the other hand did not just do a complete 180° on the Klingon designs - basically throwing each of their changes out to return to the traditional look - and brough in the BIG guns (Enterprise, Spock, traditional TOS imagery), they also completely reversed the tone and the style of the show: From super serious, to super lighthearted, now featuring pop-rock-songs, and they stile "The Orvilles" elavator gag - for their trailer.

That's BIG changes. Changes I'm BTW super happy for! But they're not just correcting Fuller - they basically rebooted their own work as well.

The change in tone was seemingly the plan all along. It's been said repeatedly that one of the whole points of S1 was to come out from the dark of war and find their way back. It's been said repeatedly that Lorca was responsible for the unhealthy culture aboard the ship, and his removal opens up space for a different tone.

This was the plan for some time, not some random over-reaction to fan suggestions.

 

[Rahul]

The change in tone was seemingly the plan all along. It's been said repeatedly that one of the whole points of S1 was to come out from the dark of war and find their way back. It's been said repeatedly that Lorca was responsible for the unhealthy culture aboard the ship, and his removal opens up space for a different tone.

This was the plan for some time, not some random over-reaction to fan suggestions.

He said, quoting after-season 1 / pre-season 2 interviews.

 

[Vger23]

He said, quoting after-season 1 / pre-season 2 interviews.

No, this was being discussed as the series aired...After Trek had a number of these discussions.
I know there's no bigger fan wet dream than to imagine that their angry ramblings in an internet site led the producers to change the show more to their liking...but it just isn't so in this case.

 

[Rahul]

No, this was being discussed as the series aired...After Trek had a number of these discussions.
I know there's no bigger fan wet dream than to imagine that their angry ramblings in an internet site led the producers to change the show more to their liking...but it just isn't so in this case.

You do now that the Lorca-reveal came pretty late in Season 1, right? So that "Lorca's bad influence" on the crew could have been discussed only at that point, right??

Like, the earliest they could have discussed that was episode 13, when the entire season was only two weeks more to go, the show already completely finished, and the creators deep in prepping for season 2? Adressing notes and fan-feedback from the first season?

 

[Tuskin38]

You do now that the Lorca-reveal came pretty late in Season 1, right? So that "Lorca's bad influence" on the crew could have been discussed only at that point, right??

Like, the earliest they could have discussed that was episode 13, when the entire season was only two weeks more to go, the show already completely finished, and the creators deep in prepping for season 2? Adressing notes and fan-feedback from the first season?

There’s no reason not to believe them

Hell you can see it happening in the show itself

 

[Vger23]

You do now that the Lorca-reveal came pretty late in Season 1, right? So that "Lorca's bad influence" on the crew could have been discussed only at that point, right??

Like, the earliest they could have discussed that was episode 13, when the entire season was only two weeks more to go, the show already completely finished, and the creators deep in prepping for season 2? Adressing notes and fan-feedback from the first season?

They were discussing other elements earlier, though. The entire POINT of S1 was to show a Starfleet out of it's element because of war, and to bring them back to their core values. It was the entire reason they wanted to explore the war arc.

Believe what you want, but they didn't write the Saru speech or the Burnham speech (which were the on-screen manifestations of the "coming back to the light" element of the arc) from late in the season because of fan feedback. That's horse crap.

It was the plan from the get-go. And I certainly don't believe Jason Isaacs would bullshit, either.

 

[Rahul]

Believe what you want, but they didn't write the Saru speech or the Burnham speech (which were the on-screen manifestations of the "coming back to the light" element of the arc) from late in the season because of fan feedback. That's horse crap.

Which is something I never said.
They were pretty honest saying that the war will only last one season pretty much from the beginning.

The thing were they did adjust fan-backlash, is in the style and tone of the production itself. "Not being at war" is one thing. Elevator jokes and funny bridge antiques over Lenny Krevitz is something else. Again: It's a change I like.
I was in the "Trek should be a little bit more lighthearted"-crowd from the very beginning. Maybe they went a bit too far. But still a hundred times than having a new season as dour as the first.

It was the plan from the get-go. And I certainly don't believe Jason Isaacs would bullshit, either.

Jason Isaacs is on the record for saying not only did he, but not even the writers knew what Lorca's "dark secret" was until the very episode they came up with the reveal. They knew he had one. Just not which one.

 

[Vger23]

Which is something I never said.
They were pretty honest saying that the war will only last one season pretty much from the beginning.

The thing were they did adjust fan-backlash, is in the style and tone of the production itself. "Not being at war" is one thing. Elevator jokes and funny bridge antiques over Lenny Krevitz is something else. Again: It's a change I like.
I was in the "Trek should be a little bit more lighthearted"-crowd from the very beginning. Maybe they went a bit too far. But still a hundred times than having a new season as dour as the first.



Jason Isaacs is on the record for saying not only did he, but not even the writers knew what Lorca's "dark secret" was until the very episode they came up with the reveal. They knew he had one. Just not which one.

Like I said, you can believe what you want...there's no way that a minority number of fan complaints are what's led to the tonal changes for S2.

In fact I'd argue that with the relative critical and audience success of S1, there was no particular pressure to change whatsoever. A few bitching and moaning fans aren't going to be the reason for a major re-direct. People in charge of franchises like this know with absolute certainty that fandoms are always going to have a vocal minority who rail against what you present, and therefore the only path to follow is to tell your story regardless.

The moment you course correct because of angry fan rants, you just piss off another group. This is "Running a Genre Franchise 101" stuff. And they know that.

 

[fireproof78]

The thing were they did adjust fan-backlash, is in the style and tone of the production itself. "Not being at war" is one thing. Elevator jokes and funny bridge antiques over Lenny Krevitz is something else. Again: It's a change I like.

I'll believe the tone has been adjusted when I see the show itself, not because of a trailer. I will also struggle to believe that it was because of fan backlash, and not just something that Kurtzman himself wanted, is the sole cause. But, this next season will bear it out as to whether the change is a good one.

The moment you course correct because of angry fan rants, you just piss off another group. This is "Running a Genre Franchise 101" stuff. And they know that.

The moment you do that is the moment you can kiss your show goodbye because there is no pleasing anyone.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

An interesting news item regarding Discovery.

Story basically states that Star Trek: Discovery is on of the most in-demand original digital series according to an industry award organization.

 

[F. King Daniel]

An interesting news item regarding Discovery.

Story basically states that Star Trek: Discovery is on of the most in-demand original digital series according to an industry award organization.

But that completely contradicts what Midnight's Dredge and Doomcock tell us!