The Lost is Space, Voyager redux premise

[valkyrie013]

So, Star Trek Voyager.
As a series, it ranks at the bottom of my favorites list, there are a good number of gems in it, love the Doctor, borg stories, however on a whole, a bit middling..
Now, as a premise, it is compelling, fun, dangerous, and at the end optimistic.
So this thread is to ask. Could we do another star trek series with the same premise, yet "do it right" and if so, how would you do it? Not trying to do a "how voyager sucked" thread. Just asking, how would you have handled a 7 year journey series. How would you handle it now post Slipstream/mushroom drive. Would there have been more deaths? More damage?

So, me first!
Lets see, First, I don't like the "Star wars Hyperspace" speed that the books have given Slipstream, where jump in and a few hours latter your on the other side of the galaxy, nope! Ill stick to the "3 months" to go 50,000 light years speed. Fast, but still gives you time.
So, As a story, Time period is early 25th century, lets say 2409 to pick a time, Slipstream is common place in the federation, but not all ships have it. Period of realitve peace in the area.
1 ship, the Uss Scott, Medium sized vessel, slip stream, crew of 200, Mission, explore the gamma/alpha quadrant border.
Premise: Ship gets pulled through a wormhole, non stable, gets dumped in the Large Magellanic Cloud. Good news, at full slipstream, your 15 months away from the galaxy, bad news, your slipstream won't work that long, itll get you half way on what remaining parts and stores you have, stranding you in Extra Galactic space. So you have options, There are planetary systems in the void between galaxies, but you have no idea what is in them, do you go and take the chance? do you send a message to star fleet asking for rescue? It'll take them 15 months to get there, after they recive the message, which will take awhile.

I'll follow up on this!

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Have a ragtag, under equipped and ill-prepared crew transported to an alien ship billions of light-years away from Federation space on a course that will only take them further from home. The crew have to learn how to operate the vessel, repair centuries worth of damage and determine if/how they can make it back home, all with dwindling resources and not knowing what is ahead of them or if the worlds the visit to find essential supplies to survive might also lead to their demise.

 

[MacLeod]

Star Trek already uses enough bad science without allowing for planetary systems in the middle of Inter-galactic space

A subspace message would take around 3 years to travel from the Large Magellanic Cloud to the Milky Way (based info from TNGs "Where No One Has Gone Before" were we are told that Starfleet should receive a message from Galaxy M33 2.7 Million Light Years Away in ~52 years (even allowing for the awful dialogue mentioning 10 months 9 weeks).

For the idea to have any merit you've got to go distances on the order of millions of light years away. Then there are questions to answer such as why can't you just replicate the parts needed to repair the slipstream drive? Besides if the Large Magellanic cloud is only just over 3 years away, One might imagine that ships would already be there or on route.

 

[valkyrie013]

So there options are few. 1. Try the slipstream flight back and stop at the systems in the void and "Hope" they have resources to continue the flight (Benimite crystals, deuterium, risk of breaking down) 2. Send a message back to the milky way, and wait for a reply/rescue, while they then moosy around the neighborhood exploring, 3. Find a planet and settle for the long haul.

So, they choose a combination of 1 and 2. There good for a 6 month haul in slipstream, so they head out in to the void, setting course for a void system a few weeks out beyond the LMC, when there, they can send the message a bit closer, and then see if that system has resources to use.

Well, if we offer some actual science in to this premise.. A ship has a finite amount of fuel, deuterium is easy to find in gas giants, and even out in space. but in the extra galactic void, no gas giants, no interstellar hydrogen, atleast not a density to collect. And there are "Rogue Systems" in the space between us and the LMC, or any other of the local dwarfs, there like 10,000 light years apart or so, but there is the odd system. There's actually a "trail" of them following the Sagittarius dwarf, since it impacted the milky way, its been littering its way out of the galaxy.
And the benemite crystals were rare, and breaking down in voyager, so not a streatch to say, we have a 6 month supply before our crystal stores are out, and since there rare, might not be easily replaced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergalactic_star
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stellar_streams

 

[valkyrie013]

So there out there, don't want to risk getting stranded in innergalactic space with no fuel, so they send a message, take 3 years to get it ( as above post) and another 15 months to traverse the distance. so, over 4 years before rescue.
However, they have a runabout class shuttle that they can upgrade to slipstream, and using a fraction of the amount of crystal and fuel, they can make the 15 month trip. Crew of 2 holographic engineers, with 2 real crew in stasis.

Option B, lets explore the LMC, using slipstream sparingly ( Lets say the crystals break down with use, okay if not used)

They go in to the computers "Break in case of emergency" data bank, They get data on Transphasic torpedos, Ablative armour, Transphasic shields, a Cloaking device ( Imagine what could have been avoided in Voyager.. IF THEY HAD A CLOAKING DEVICE! sheesh..) They find some local guides, ally planets.

 

[Vger23]

I'd like to see a training ship get stranded in a distant location. Some very seasoned veteran instructors and a crew filled with up-and-coming junior officers. Lots of problem solving and exploring along the way. Dangers and resource management are a constant theme.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

What are benemite crystals?

Why wouldn't the ship have a conventional warp drive fitted as a redundancy? It would be logical in case the slipstream were ever to fail, rather than leave a ship stranded in the unknown just at impulse.

Also with the development of slipstream wouldn't they have found a way to boost communications speeds? By the time a distant ship received an admiral's orders saying they were going to send reinforcements then they'd already be there.

Why would a runabout need holographic crew? They are essentially the ships computer so why not just set it to autopilot and sent it on its way, with orders to awaken the crew if discoveries are made? Or better yet, send out a series of slipstream probes, less resources needed for opening up more options.

Ablative armour was standard on Defiant-Class ships so could well be implemented in new builds. The transphasics would also be included after some time spent at R&D. Cloaks would still be outlawed on Federation ships under the Treaty of Algeron, unless the UFP and Romulans had come to a compromise, which is a possibility given then were allies during the Dominion War and relations may have improved following the Shinzon Incident.

Also rather than the LMC seeming like a lawless place (like the DQ), why not have many of the races there already allied together in their own interplanetary union, one willing and able to offer support and resources to the lost crew, allowing them to go on a mission of peaceful exploration, rather than constantly battling aliens of the week.

 

[valkyrie013]

Benemite crystals were at the heart of the Slipstream drive in Voyager, and on the show, it showed them decaying, thats why they had to risk a flight when it was dangerous. But its just me giving a non technobable ( or minor) reason for not flying home.In my premise, they've already been on mission for over a year when the accident happened. Takes a month to slipstream back, if they have a 6 month supply, that gives them plenty to get home, but not now.

In the books, they drop radio relays as they go, so they can keep in touch with home, but they were dropped un ceremoniously in the LMC without that, so 3 years to go 250,000 light years is actually quite good a speed.

On warp, the ship does have regular warp drive, but say it conks out at half way.. thats 125,000 light years to go. Thats atleast a 100 years at high warp travel, with almost no planets or stars to stop at along the way. I mean I guess they could hit the gas till they run out half way, then be stuck 6 months out by QSD, and just wait 2 years to be rescued, 18 months for radio, then 6 months to get rescued. Guess just throw themselves in stasis.

Well, It is a treaty violation, but .. I don't think Romulus would care much if there using a cloaking device under emergency situations like being lost in space. Why I put it in the "Break in case of Emergency" data bank

Whole thing is a work in progress.. Didn't think to deep before i posted the thread And that is a good idea on finding a peaceful "federation" in the LMC. Not just pop up, piss off an alien race, and have them be the bad guys. In my story, one of the things i want to explore is WHY there is a Galactic barrier around the Milky Way!

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Benemite crystals were at the heart of the Slipstream drive in Voyager, and on the show, it showed them decaying, thats why they had to risk a flight when it was dangerous. But its just me giving a non technobable ( or minor) reason for not flying home.In my premise, they've already been on mission for over a year when the accident happened. Takes a month to slipstream back, if they have a 6 month supply, that gives them plenty to get home, but not now.

I searched Memories Alpha and Beta and didn't find anything, so might have to look again.

In the books, they drop radio relays as they go, so they can keep in touch with home, but they were dropped un ceremoniously in the LMC without that, so 3 years to go 250,000 light years is actually quite good a speed.

Haven't read any of the books in years, so there would need to be a lot of exposition to fill in all those blanks, if they are included within the canon.

On warp, the ship does have regular warp drive, but say it conks out at half way.. thats 125,000 light years to go. Thats atleast a 100 years at high warp travel, with almost no planets or stars to stop at along the way. I mean I guess they could hit the gas till they run out half way, then be stuck 6 months out by QSD, and just wait 2 years to be rescued, 18 months for radio, then 6 months to get rescued. Guess just throw themselves in stasis.

They could then switch to Bajoran solar sails

Well, It is a treaty violation, but .. I don't think Romulus would care much if there using a cloaking device under emergency situations like being lost in space. Why I put it in the "Break in case of Emergency" data bank

So is this an Intelligence black-ops ship led by a descendent of Admiral Pressman?

Whole thing is a work in progress.. Didn't think to deep before i posted the thread And that is a good idea on finding a peaceful "federation" in the LMC. Not just pop up, piss off an alien race, and have them be the bad guys. In my story, one of the things i want to explore is WHY there is a Galactic barrier around the Milky Way!

Maybe the Galactic Barrier is there to keep something inside the Milky Way...

 

[The Old Mixer]

When a series idea gets this detail-specific, I think it crosses into Fan Fiction territory. Energizing.

 

[Admiral2]

Have a ragtag, under equipped and ill-prepared crew transported to an alien ship billions of light-years away from Federation space on a course that will only take them further from home. The crew have to learn how to operate the vessel, repair centuries worth of damage and determine if/how they can make it back home, all with dwindling resources and not knowing what is ahead of them or if the worlds the visit to find essential supplies to survive might also lead to their demise.

Yeah, I liked Stargate: Universe too...mostly.

So, Star Trek Voyager.
As a series, it ranks at the bottom of my favorites list, there are a good number of gems in it, love the Doctor, borg stories, however on a whole, a bit middling..
Now, as a premise, it is compelling, fun, dangerous, and at the end optimistic.
So this thread is to ask. Could we do another star trek series with the same premise, yet "do it right" and if so, how would you do it? Not trying to do a "how voyager sucked" thread. Just asking, how would you have handled a 7 year journey series. How would you handle it now post Slipstream/mushroom drive. Would there have been more deaths? More damage?

Well, I'd start by asking the same question Trek's handlers should have asked before VOY was ever greenlit, which is "Why the hell are we taking 'Lost in Space' and sticking a 'Star Trek' tag on it? 'Lost in Space has been done!" And mind you, back then you were only talking about the original LiS series. Now, if you're talking about some future trek version, now you've got two entire Lost in Space series (original and Netflix reboot), a pilot for a third series that didn't get picked up, a feature film and two clones, VOY and the aforementioned SG:U to compare it too. and every single one of those versions has the exact same flaw: the number of plot contrivances you need to come up with to keep your characters lost as long as the audience stays interested, with the paradox that the audience will get as fed up with the failed attempts to get the crew home as the crew and they lose interest anyway. (You started this thread by saying VOY's at the bottom of your list. Think about why.)

So no, there is no way to do this premise right, whether it's trek or not, because "right" means they find their way home, and you don't have a series. So what would I do? Dump the LiS part of it. If the ship is somewhere 7, 70, or 700 lightyears from home it's because the crew went there on purpose. Why? Why else? Exploration. It's freaking Star Trek.

This is how I addressed the concept back in the olden days of Future of Trek before JJ-trek got inflicted on us. No accidental wormholes, no benemite shortages. They're out there cause that's the point:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-cosmos.60889/

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Yeah, I liked Stargate: Universe too...mostly.

I'm in the minority that likes it more than SG-1.

 

[Admiral2]

I'm in the minority that likes it more than SG-1.

Ooooh...Yes, yes you are...

 

[Blip]

I'm in the minority that likes it more than SG-1.

Far from being the only one, though

 

[LJones41]

Yeah, I liked Stargate: Universe too...mostly.



Well, I'd start by asking the same question Trek's handlers should have asked before VOY was ever greenlit, which is "Why the hell are we taking 'Lost in Space' and sticking a 'Star Trek' tag on it? 'Lost in Space has been done!" And mind you, back then you were only talking about the original LiS series. Now, if you're talking about some future trek version, now you've got two entire Lost in Space series (original and Netflix reboot), a pilot for a third series that didn't get picked up, a feature film and two clones, VOY and the aforementioned SG:U to compare it too. and every single one of those versions has the exact same flaw: the number of plot contrivances you need to come up with to keep your characters lost as long as the audience stays interested, with the paradox that the audience will get as fed up with the failed attempts to get the crew home as the crew and they lose interest anyway. (You started this thread by saying VOY's at the bottom of your list. Think about why.)

So no, there is no way to do this premise right, whether it's trek or not, because "right" means they find their way home, and you don't have a series. So what would I do? Dump the LiS part of it. If the ship is somewhere 7, 70, or 700 lightyears from home it's because the crew went there on purpose. Why? Why else? Exploration. It's freaking Star Trek.

This is how I addressed the concept back in the olden days of Future of Trek before JJ-trek got inflicted on us. No accidental wormholes, no benemite shortages. They're out there cause that's the point:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-cosmos.60889/

So . . . what are you saying here? That Trek wasn't allowed to do a series with a "Lost in Space" premise? Why? Why did it bother to do a series with a "Babylon 5" premise, when it couldn't do it as good as the Stracynski series?

 

[Admiral2]

So . . . what are you saying here? That Trek wasn't allowed to do a series with a "Lost in Space" premise?

No, I'm saying it shouldn't have been allowed. Obviously it was allowed because VOY exists.

Why?

I already said why. A Lost In Space premise brings with it tropes that will eventually frustrate an audience.

Why did it bother to do a series with a "Babylon 5" premise, when it couldn't do it as good as the Stracynski series?

Because at the time of DS9's release B5 was still a month away, so for one glorious month the space station premise was all trek's. The last time anything like it had been done was in the seventies, a Saturday morning kids show that lasted one season and couldn't possibly compete with a trek version with a real studio behind it. DS9 in its initial release never faced the same comparison problems VOY would and a new LiS trek would suffer even more.