Is There in Truth No Awesome?

[Pauln6]

I think Miranda sub-consciously wanted Spock to fail. I doubt she wanted him to die or go mad. While she dismissed Kirk's accusation of motivation she didn't say she was incapable of it which is surprising.
So Miranda can not only read thoughts but also influence her will on even a strong telepath like Spock (probably without realising it). Thats makes her very powerful. She could be quite a weapon.

Yes I suppose Kirk might believe that was possible. Another reason why Miranda style telepathy is far more interesting than Betazoids !

 

[Miramanee]

An episode ruined by the "improved" effects

 

[Spock's Barber]

I did not like this episode when I first watched it, but it has grown on me. It's still not my favorite; it is tolerable, though.

 

[johnnybear]

It's not a favourite of mine either but it's still miles above that Plato nonsense!
JB

 

[Spock's Barber]

Diana Muldaur and David Frankham were a good duo in the episode.

 

[johnnybear]

I've spoken with David Frankham a few years back and he says he loves living in the US but he does miss fish and chips!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Diana Muldaur and David Frankham were a good duo in the episode.

"I love you...Miranda..!"
JB

 

[Spock's Barber]

I've spoken with David Frankham a few years back and he says he loves living in the US but he does miss fish and chips!
JB

Yes, he went over to director Ralph Senensky's house just recently and they both rewatched the episode together.

 

[Spock's Barber]

"I love you...Miranda..!"
JB

.....and then "Arrrggghhhhhhhhh!!!".

 

[johnnybear]

.....and then "Arrrggghhhhhhhhh!!!".

"LIAR...LIAR...!
JB

 

[Spock's Barber]

When he collapses, Frankham really looks dead. I think he is a really underrated actor. I would have liked to seen him as a regular TOS crew member.

 

[MAGolding]

...
Granted, there aren't many human telepaths nowadays, sighted or otherwise. In 300 years' time, despite hundreds of centuries' worth of time, will humans who are blind develop telepathy as a replacement sense? Which is partially unfair to say, Kirk's pilot episode dealt with esper and 6th sense abilities and if anyone genuinely had such ability, they're not going to talk about it. In part because it wouldn't take long for anybody to realize the anomaly. and all this took place decades before Troi's time, too. Makes me wonder when first contact with Betazed really took place...

In "The Empath":

KIRK: Without speech, how's she going to be able to understand us? Unless she's a telepath.
SPOCK: An unlikely possibility, Captain, since over ninety eight percent of the known telepathic species send thoughts as well as receive them. She's made no attempt to contact our minds.

Suppose there are exactly 50 known telepathic species when Spock makes that statement. If 49 telepathic species can send thoughts as well as receive them, exactly 98 percent can send as well as receive. If 50 telephatic species can send as well as recieve that would be exactly 100 percent, and Spock wouldn't say "over ninety eight percent".

If there were exactly 100 known telepathic species and 98 of them can send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 99 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent, and Spock wouldn't say "over ninety eight percent".

So if there are exactly 457 known telepathic species and 447.86 of them can send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 452.43 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent. So Spock could say "over ninety eight percent" if 448, 449, 450, 451, or 452 of them could send as well as receive.

If there were exactly 200 telepathic species, and 196 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 198 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent, and Spock might say "over ninety eight percent" if the number of species that could send as well as receive was 197.

Thus I suspect that at least 200 telepathic species were known at the time of "The Empath" and thus the era of "Is There in Truth No Beauty".

Are humans counted as one of the telepathic species?

Miranda says:

MIRANDA: I spent four years on Vulcan studying their mental discipline.

Four years, even if they just recently ended, should go back to the time of "Where No Man Has Gone before" or even earlier.

SPOCK: Not correct, Doctor, although I am aware of your mind attempting to contact mine. Were you born a telepath?
MIRANDA: Yes. That is why I had to study on Vulcan.

POCK: Doctor Jones was born a telepath, Captain.
KIRK: Oh.
MIRANDA: Vulcan was necessary to my sanity.
SPOCK: What most humans generally find impossible to understand is the need to shut out the bedlam of other people's thoughts and emotions.

I think most viewers would think that Miranda should have been old enough to talk about her telepathy and how other people's thoughts and feelings overwhelmed her at least 20 years before the episode, and so telepathy should have been known to occur among some Earth humans a couple of decades before TOS.

But in "Where No Man Has Gone before":

KIRK: Extrasensory perception. Doctor Dehner, how are you on ESP?
DEHNER: In tests I've taken, my ESP rated rather high.
KIRK: I'm asking what you know about ESP.
DEHNER: It is a fact that some people can sense future happenings, read the backs of playing cards and so on, but the esper capacity is always quite limited.

DEHNER: Yes. Mitchell, too, except for his eyes. We're trying to find a reason for that now, and why, out of our whole crew, only certain people were affected.
SPOCK: I think we've found that answer, Doctor.
KIRK: You mentioned that tests show you have a high degree of extrasensory perception. So do the records of the others. Gary Mitchell has the highest esper rating of all.
DEHNER: lf you're suggesting there's anything dangerous
SPOCK: Before the Valiant was destroyed, its captain was frantically searching for ESP information on his crew.
DEHNER: Espers are simply people with flashes of insight.
SPOCK: Are there not also those who seem to see through solid objects, cause fires to start spontaneously?
DEHNER: There's nothing about it that could possibly make a person dangerous.
SPOCK: Doctor Dehner is speaking of normal ESP power.
DEHNER: Perhaps you know of another kind?
KIRK: Do we know for sure, Doctor, that there isn't another kind?

Spock and Kirk certainly experience forms of ESP not normal for Earth humans in later episodes and might already know of some examples which they don't happen to mention in reply to Dehner.

Nobody mentions telepathy as a type of ESP, though Mitchell later does develop telepathy. This indicates three possibilities.

1. No Earth humans are known to include telepathy among their ESP abilties.

2. Telepathy exists among Earth humans but is considered to be a separate category from ESP.

3. Telepathy is an ESP ability that some Earth humans have but nobody happens to mention it as a form of ESP in "Where No Man Has Gone before".

Considering when Miranda Jones started experiencing telepathy it is improbable that # 1 is true in the Star Trek universe.

So I wonder how common telepathy is among Earth humans and whether it is common enough for Earth humans to be counted as a telepathic species.

 

[Marsden]

In "The Empath":



Suppose there are exactly 50 known telepathic species when Spock makes that statement. If 49 telepathic species can send thoughts as well as receive them, exactly 98 percent can send as well as receive. If 50 telephatic species can send as well as recieve that would be exactly 100 percent, and Spock wouldn't say "over ninety eight percent".

If there were exactly 100 known telepathic species and 98 of them can send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 99 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent, and Spock wouldn't say "over ninety eight percent".

So if there are exactly 457 known telepathic species and 447.86 of them can send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 452.43 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent. So Spock could say "over ninety eight percent" if 448, 449, 450, 451, or 452 of them could send as well as receive.

If there were exactly 200 telepathic species, and 196 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 198 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent, and Spock might say "over ninety eight percent" if the number of species that could send as well as receive was 197.

Thus I suspect that at least 200 telepathic species were known at the time of "The Empath" and thus the era of "Is There in Truth No Beauty".

Are humans counted as one of the telepathic species?

Miranda says:



Four years, even if they just recently ended, should go back to the time of "Where No Man Has Gone before" or even earlier.





I think most viewers would think that Miranda should have been old enough to talk about her telepathy and how other people's thoughts and feelings overwhelmed her at least 20 years before the episode, and so telepathy should have been known to occur among some Earth humans a couple of decades before TOS.



But in "Where No Man Has Gone before":





Spock and Kirk certainly experience forms of ESP not normal for Earth humans in later episodes and might already know of some examples which they don't happen to mention in reply to Dehner.

Nobody mentions telepathy as a type of ESP, though Mitchell later does develop telepathy. This indicates three possibilities.

1. No Earth humans are known to include telepathy among their ESP abilties.

2. Telepathy exists among Earth humans but is considered to be a separate category from ESP.

3. Telepathy is an ESP ability that some Earth humans have but nobody happens to mention it as a form of ESP in "Where No Man Has Gone before".

Considering when Miranda Jones started experiencing telepathy it is improbable that # 1 is true in the Star Trek universe.

So I wonder how common telepathy is among Earth humans and whether it is common enough for Earth humans to be counted as a telepathic species.

I'm not firmly convinced of the timeline but certainly Dr. Jones was a known telepath during that conversation in WNMGB, however they specifically do not include telepathy in the ESP types, sense future happenings, read the backs of playing cards and so on, see through solid objects, cause fires to start spontaneously?
so I'm going to pick number 2 of your conclusions that telepathy was not in the ESP they were discussing. Also, I'd say that there were no telepaths aboard the Enterprise then, Mr. Spock being a possible exception but then he wasn't on the list of high ESP rated people, either.

When he collapses, Frankham really looks dead. I think he is a really underrated actor. I would have liked to seen him as a regular TOS crew member.

Yes, he would be the ultimate Red Shirt, gets killed convincingly every week!

 

[gottacook]

In some sense Miranda Jones is not an "Earth human" at all; as she says in the arboretum scene:

"I've never been to Earth."​

Perhaps (assuming she is of Earth ancestry in the first place) she was born a telepath because of some element in her off-Earth environment, presumably one that her parents were exposed to.

 

[Grant]

Brilliant writing when Miranda says someone is in this room is thinking of murder.

 

[Timo]

I'm sort of biased towards #2 as the rationalization. Why should telepathy count as "extrasensory" when it's not that much "extra" even for the humans of Trek, and appears commonplace enough in the already known galaxy?

But what is ESP in Trek terms? "Unverifiable" is the keyword for that today, but nothing about "mind arts" would remain unverifiable in a world of telepaths! And the point in "Where No Man" is that Mitchell and Dehner are officially verified and entered into the records as possessing said mind arts.

I'm all for telepathy being ETP, tho - it would be simplicity enough to assume Earthlings catch the skill from aliens soon after T'Pol and Tucker make it fashionable to mix.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marsden]

Brilliant writing when Miranda says someone is in this room is thinking of murder.

That's probably every morning at the office! I think the trick might be who isn't thinking of murder.

But in the future with those notables assembled it would be indeed unusual to sense such a thing.

 

[Greg Cox]

Love this episode. Particularly the whole Kollos/Spock mind-meld sequence.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

In "The Empath":



Suppose there are exactly 50 known telepathic species when Spock makes that statement. If 49 telepathic species can send thoughts as well as receive them, exactly 98 percent can send as well as receive. If 50 telephatic species can send as well as recieve that would be exactly 100 percent, and Spock wouldn't say "over ninety eight percent".

If there were exactly 100 known telepathic species and 98 of them can send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 99 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent, and Spock wouldn't say "over ninety eight percent".

So if there are exactly 457 known telepathic species and 447.86 of them can send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 452.43 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent. So Spock could say "over ninety eight percent" if 448, 449, 450, 451, or 452 of them could send as well as receive.

If there were exactly 200 telepathic species, and 196 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 98 percent. If 198 could send as well as receive, that would be exactly 99 percent, and Spock might say "over ninety eight percent" if the number of species that could send as well as receive was 197.

Thus I suspect that at least 200 telepathic species were known at the time of "The Empath" and thus the era of "Is There in Truth No Beauty".

Are humans counted as one of the telepathic species?

Miranda says:



Four years, even if they just recently ended, should go back to the time of "Where No Man Has Gone before" or even earlier.





I think most viewers would think that Miranda should have been old enough to talk about her telepathy and how other people's thoughts and feelings overwhelmed her at least 20 years before the episode, and so telepathy should have been known to occur among some Earth humans a couple of decades before TOS.

But in "Where No Man Has Gone before":


Spock and Kirk certainly experience forms of ESP not normal for Earth humans in later episodes and might already know of some examples which they don't happen to mention in reply to Dehner.

Nobody mentions telepathy as a type of ESP, though Mitchell later does develop telepathy. This indicates three possibilities.

1. No Earth humans are known to include telepathy among their ESP abilties.

2. Telepathy exists among Earth humans but is considered to be a separate category from ESP.

3. Telepathy is an ESP ability that some Earth humans have but nobody happens to mention it as a form of ESP in "Where No Man Has Gone before".

Considering when Miranda Jones started experiencing telepathy it is improbable that # 1 is true in the Star Trek universe.

So I wonder how common telepathy is among Earth humans and whether it is common enough for Earth humans to be counted as a telepathic species.

In the video Star Trek Voyager Elite Force, there is a Betazoid character who had to study on Vulcan, who displays the same edgy mostly-controlled emotions Miranda did. In a few episodes of TNG, Troi is referred to generally as "human," even though she is part Betazoid. Miranda, though referred to as "human," says she has not seen Earth in person. Adding that to your estimates, plus the fact that many have compared her abilities to to Troi's, it only adds strength to this episode if Miranda were all or partly genetically a Betazoid. Her behavior and the video game character, medic Juliet Jurot, are so similar that I have to think Juliet Jurot was based on her in any case.

 

[Commishsleer]

That's probably every morning at the office! I think the trick might be who isn't thinking of murder.

But in the future with those notables assembled it would be indeed unusual to sense such a thing.

So of the people assembled who did we guess it was thinking of murder?
Was it one of Kirk and co. or the special guest star of the week?