My Suspicion on Bajoran Uniforms

[Bry_Sinclair]

No, I haven't. This thread is about the series' initial uniforms. Once

Militia medical personnel were seen as early as "Past Prologue", though their uniform did go through at one redesign in the following episode ("A Man Alone") before settling on the Brown/Purple by the third of the series ("Babel").

The police don't handle security on military bases. DS9 is not just the promenade. There isn't a separate Starfleet tactical officer.

DS9 is a Bajoran station, with Starfleet there by invitation, part of that deal could've been to include their police force to maintain order in accordance to Bajoran laws. It was also in the original development of the show that the shape-shifting Chief of Security was a civilian (might need to see if I can find my 'The Making of DS9' book to see what else it included). On stations I'd suspect that the duties of security and tactical would be separated, we see in "The Way of the Warrior" that is a more logical approach (Odo dealing with repelling boarding teams and coordinating his deputies to contain them, whilst Worf is in Ops manning weapons).

 

[Tosk]

Militia medical personnel were seen as early as "Past Prologue", though their uniform did go through at one redesign in the following episode ("A Man Alone")

A Man Alone was produced before Past Prologue, so production-wise it's the other way around.

 

[phantomeagle]

I'll put in my two bits on this.

I think that the Bajorans, after decades of being slaves and subjects of Cardassians, wanted their uniforms to blend in. Star Fleet uniforms stood out for a reason. You needed to know who was in charge, and what rank they had.

The Cardassians were brutal, and how different their uniforms were from Bajoran attire, might have been a not to subtle reminder of being oppressed. By being bland and subtle, the officers, security, Kais, and Vedeks, just kind of blended in with the population, making the citizens feel far more comfortable with their leaders being among them and not reminders of the occupation since the leaders didn't stand out nearly as much as the Cardassian ones did.

 

[Timo]

Also, Bajorans would have fought on the ground basically exclusively. They were extreme homebodies even before the occupation, not having it in their hearts to venture into space even to populate their paradisaical fifth moon; during the occupation, those who left the planet (something the Cardassians apparently weren't opposed to, mirroring early Nazi sentiments) would not have the means to return.

Those who stayed and fought would have appreciated the direct tactical value of not having garish uniforms. Those went out of fashion back when the firepower of the individual soldier increased, formations correspondingly decreased in size, and the means of controlling a formation moved beyond shouting and waving of flags. The Bajoran militia would be likely to wear camouflage even when venturing into all-new environments such as space stations. And rank insignia that don't tell rank from a distance, to frustrate snipers.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

The police don't handle security on military bases. DS9 is not just the promenade.

Maybe they're military police? Anyway, the Bajoran security officers handle security on the Promenade, Starfleet Security looks after the rest of the station. At least that was the original intent. Admittedly, the series did tend to stick Bajoran security anywhere on the station.

There isn't a separate Starfleet tactical officer.

Eddington. Or, in case you're playing your "first season" card, George Primmin.

 

[cultcross]

The police don't handle security on military bases.

The MOD Police certainly do. Not everything has to run as a direct analogue of the US military. Odo is presented as fulfilling a police role, not a military one - the courtesy title Constable only serves to highlight this. He investigates crimes, arrests offenders (primarily civilians), and undertakes law enforcement operations. The difference between what he does and what Starfleet tactical officers do is explicitly highlighted when Worf arrives.

There isn't a separate Starfleet tactical officer.

It's brought up quite often that Starfleet isn't happy with that - eventually Michael Eddington fulfills that role, and it is reasonable to assume that he was replaced after he defected.

 

[The Wormhole]

eventually Michael Eddington fulfills that role, and it is reasonable to assume that he was replaced after he defected.

I always wondered about that. George Primmin presumably left the station sometime after his two season 1 appearances and was not replaced right away since both Bajoran and Starfleet security officers answer to Odo during the second season. Eddington gets assigned in the third season because Starfleet doesn't consider Odo trustworthy, and eventually Eddington is the one who end up betraying them. I'm sure that situation might have helped sell the argument that Odo can be trusted to run station security without direct Starfleet oversight.

 

[cultcross]

I always wondered about that. George Primmin presumably left the station sometime after his two season 1 appearances and was not replaced right away since both Bajoran and Starfleet security officers answer to Odo during the second season. Eddington gets assigned in the third season because Starfleet doesn't consider Odo trustworthy, and eventually Eddington is the one who end up betraying them. I'm sure that situation might have helped sell the argument that Odo can be trusted to run station security without direct Starfleet oversight.

Although at the same time, it turned out Odo was a Big Boss for the worst enemy in recent memory. As progressive as Starfleet is on treating people as individuals, the Admiralty don't seem to have got that message (see the Jem'Hadar child episode) so I won't how much faith they would have in Odo's loyalty. It's entirely possible though that Sisko just kept them mostly in the dark about Eddington's replacement basically being Odo. What they don't know can't hurt them.

 

[The Wormhole]

As progressive as Starfleet is on treating people as individuals, the Admiralty don't seem to have got that message

To be fair, the Admiralty does consist of many of Starfleet's most villainous officers.

 

[Arpy]

Militia medical personnel were seen as early as "Past Prologue", though their uniform did go through at one redesign in the following episode ("A Man Alone") before settling on the Brown/Purple by the third of the series ("Babel").

The medical personnel in the very beginning ("Past Prologue" "A Man Alone") were in cheap throwaway uniforms that weren't seen again. Maybe in part because they looked too similar to the yellow security uniforms. Note again the early red-blue-yellow design.

They may also not have been the more formal standard duty uniforms like Kira's or Odo's but tight one-piece working ones like Rom's. I imagine the standard duty version of them would have looked very security indeed.

On stations I'd suspect that the duties of security and tactical would be separated, we see in "The Way of the Warrior" that is a more logical approach (Odo dealing with repelling boarding teams and coordinating his deputies to contain them, whilst Worf is in Ops manning weapons).

You'd think, but George Primmin didn't last long (did he do much in Ops? I don't remember) and Eddington too I remember more on the Defiant than at tactical. Who was usually firing phasers in the early seasons, Dax or O'Brien?

I think they wanted Odo to be the town sherif and felt that that was enough. Maybe Kira did "strategic operations" until Primmin or Eddington or Worf came along.

Those who stayed and fought would have appreciated the direct tactical value of not having garish uniforms.

The uniforms were garish. The red and yellow were very distinct -- only the rank insignia were small. Still, generals had epaulets and the navarch had a distinct chest pattern.

Eddington. Or, in case you're playing your "first season" card, George Primmin.

You're doing it again. There is no "'first season' card." The title of the thread is about my suspicion that they initially reused Odo's uniform, setting a precedent for what came later -- of course that's going to be at the very beginning.

I wish someone would do a photoshop of one of the red or blue (gray) uniforms, turning yellow (brown) so we could see what they would have looked like. It'd be cool. The same for the nursing and engineering uniforms.

...I wonder why Rom wasn't in a gray uniform himself. Was it an enlisted uniform? Maybe the green is the gray for enlisted personnel. I wonder if there's another color for enlisted personnel under the red uniform division.

If security was always meant to be civilian, I wonder why they chose for the pilot the three correlative Starfleet primary colors uniform design and didn't just create two non primary color correlative uniforms. Why not put them all in military gray and police brown?

 

[Timo]

The uniforms were garish. The red and yellow were very distinct -- only the rank insignia were small.

The red and yellow were both down-to-earth or down-to-Bajor colors, as we later saw when there was ground action on Bajor. Fine for camouflage, really. Too bad we never learned why there would be two colors in, say, the posse that went after Shakaar. Or then we could deduce from that very instance that the colors were not significant to begin with, merely being different shades of camouflage for the varying terrain?

As for Primmin, we can't really tell there wasn't an immediate replacement. After all, the presence of Primmin was not all that significant, but his absence made no difference whatsoever. A goldshirted Starfleet Lieutenant might always have been serving in the Primmin/Eddington slot, sometimes even spotted in the background (e.g. "The Siege" would have its share of candidates), but he or she would know to yield to Odo on law enforcement issues and joint operations, and to tell his or hers forces to do the same. After all, Sisko was adamant that Primmin should do that, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Markonian]

We could use STO to use the command uni template with the security/beige color scheme to see what a non-Odofied security uniform would have looked like, as the OP suggested.

 

[Tomalak]

I always wondered about that. George Primmin presumably left the station sometime after his two season 1 appearances and was not replaced right away since both Bajoran and Starfleet security officers answer to Odo during the second season. Eddington gets assigned in the third season because Starfleet doesn't consider Odo trustworthy, and eventually Eddington is the one who end up betraying them. I'm sure that situation might have helped sell the argument that Odo can be trusted to run station security without direct Starfleet oversight.

Eddington arrives with the Defiant - the two are inextricably linked. Starfleet's happy to give Sisko discretion over who runs security on the promenade and the station, but they want one of their own to look after their warship. The Romulans probably insisted on beefed up security for their cloaking device too.

Starfleet suspicion of Odo's reliability is apparent in The Maquis, so Eddington's arrival nicely builds on that. Obviously Eddington's betrayal (ironically to the Maquis) would have been pretty good evidence that Odo was perfectly trustworthy and Sisko was best placed to choose his security officer. Plus by then Worf is on the station and literally lives on the Defiant. It's deemed safe enough.

 

[Tomalak]

...I wonder why Rom wasn't in a gray uniform himself. Was it an enlisted uniform? Maybe the green is the gray for enlisted personnel. I wonder if there's another color for enlisted personnel under the red uniform division.

I actually never noticed that Rom's costume is different to the earlier grey engineers we see on the show, so good spot.

Could be that Rom's costume is originally a trainee/apprentice uniform, like Nog. Another alternative is that he's not technically an engineer at first. IIRC he's a technician, which basically involves cleaning the toilets. The green/grey costume could be for housekeeping staff...

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Militia Engineer Tekoa wears the gray/green uniform as well.

 

[Arpy]

Eddington arrives with the Defiant - the two are inextricably linked. Starfleet's happy to give Sisko discretion over who runs security on the promenade and the station, but they want one of their own to look after their warship. The Romulans probably insisted on beefed up security for their cloaking device too.

Starfleet suspicion of Odo's reliability is apparent in The Maquis, so Eddington's arrival nicely builds on that. Obviously Eddington's betrayal (ironically to the Maquis) would have been pretty good evidence that Odo was perfectly trustworthy and Sisko was best placed to choose his security officer. Plus by then Worf is on the station and literally lives on the Defiant. It's deemed safe enough.

Thing about Eddington is he seems more Defiant security than station tactical officer. Again, who was firing the station’s phasers? I think it was O’Brien.

The red and yellow were both down-to-earth or down-to-Bajor colors, as we later saw when there was ground action on Bajor. Fine for camouflage, really. Too bad we never learned why there would be two colors in, say, the posse that went after Shakaar. Or then we could deduce from that very instance that the colors were not significant to begin with, merely being different shades of camouflage for the varying terrain?

What I took from it is that, similar to Starfleet, red is command (the leader and lieutenants of the posse were in red). The highest ranking Bajoran on DS9 (Kira) is also in red. That’s why it’s so strange to see the general and navarch in The Circle trilogy in gray. I wonder what their thinking was there.

It isn’t good camouflage though. It isn’t a terrain shade of red (even if it were for Vulcan or Mars, let alone Earthlike Bajor), and most places the uniform is worn are nowhere near that. The inspiration I feel is Starfleet, especially when taken into context of the three main division branches.


Looking for something else online, I found this. It’s something at least, if we disregard the fourth one.

Also a few things about this picture. Note that the security uniforms include rank insignia (never on the series, pre or post collar additions) and the difference between the two tones of the gray ones, shoulder vs body. The shoulders here are a proper gray (as they never were on the series) and the body remains a muddy purple. The belts (attempting to match the purple of the body) are even more purple, even though on the series they were turquoise.

 

[Kate Nichols]

Kira always wears red, even when she is out of uniform on a date with Odo.

 

[Markonian]

We’ve established the different colors and departments for the uniforms. Some ambiguity remains.

Apart from the absent collar on some security uniforms, does the cut/styling of the shirts signify anything? Specifically as the OP opined Odo’s uniform may have been less detailed than the “real thing”? Especially Rom’s uniform stands out in that regard. Kurn had a regular, collar-free uni.

In STO, you can slap on any color on the uniform tops, FWIW.

 

[Tomalak]

Thing about Eddington is he seems more Defiant security than station tactical officer. Again, who was firing the station’s phasers? I think it was O’Brien.

Whoever was available. O'Brien in the pilot, Kira stands over that central display pressing buttons that activate tractor beams and firing the weapons. I think she does this in WOTW with Worf.

 

[flandry84]

Hey,the Bajorans are aliens.Maybe the uniform colors have more to do with caste,birthplace or any of a myriad other reasons.Given Kira’s initial hostility to Starfleet it would seem a stretch that the newly minted Bajoran military would base their uniform colours on Starfleet.