News TLJ Negative Buzz Amplified by Russian Trolls, Study Finds

[ALF]

Did that actually happen with anything? I know the hate campaign we're talking about drove some actors off Twitter, but I don't recall it changing any production schedules.

Thinking 'Bob Iger slowdown' here. I'm under the impression that Solo languished quickly in theatres due in no small part due to the negativity of The Last Jedi. If Russian trolls/bots are to be credited with killing the One Star Wars movie per year plan (which I maintain would have worked) then it doesn't sit right with me because it has nothing to do with the quality vs quantity of content. In many ways I feel the Anthology films have more promise than the serials... I love the idea of an entire story in one film. It's low risk for both the studio and the fans.

 

[Campe]

Thinking 'Bob Iger slowdown' here. I'm under the impression that Solo languished quickly in theatres due in no small part due to the negativity of The Last Jedi. If Russian trolls/bots are to be credited with killing the One Star Wars movie per year plan (which I maintain would have worked) then it doesn't sit right with me because it has nothing to do with the quality vs quantity of content... and in many ways I feel the Anthology films have more promise than the serials... I love the idea of an entire story in one film.

While I can agree that the TLJ backlash played a small part in the way Solo performed in the box office, there were a ton of other mitigating circumstances that led into its not living up to expectations. Don't put too much credit on the haters.

 

[Spot261]

While I can agree that the TLJ backlash played a small part in the way Solo performed in the box office, there were a ton of other mitigating circumstances that led into its not living up to expectations. Don't put too much credit on the haters.

In fairness I doubt "Solo" was the intended target, any effect this might have had on it would be collateral at best.

 

[Campe]

In fairness I doubt "Solo" was the intended target, any effect this might have had on it would be collateral at best.

That is probably true, but regardless, I would guess that perhaps 10k fans decided post-TLJ (whether they were influenced by Russian bots or not) decided they would vote with their wallets. But 10k fans is not a lot, not by any stretch of the imagination, despite how large of a voice they might believe they have.

 

[Christopher]

I'm under the impression that Solo languished quickly in theatres due in no small part due to the negativity of The Last Jedi.

I don't see why that would be, since Solo seems to be just the kind of film that the TLJ critics/bashers would prefer -- a traditional Star Wars film that focuses on the classic characters (white male lead included) and caters to nostalgia. At least, the critics who did like TLJ for breaking new ground have seemed to find Solo underwhelming in its conventionalism and safeness. (Disclaimer: I haven't seen it yet myself, so this is not my own opinion.) So it follows that people who disliked TLJ might have preferred Solo. Thus I'm not sure one can presume a causal connection between TLJ criticism and Solo's underperformance. They just seem too different in approach.

 

[Spot261]

I don't see why that would be, since Solo seems to be just the kind of film that the TLJ critics/bashers would prefer -- a traditional Star Wars film that focuses on the classic characters (white male lead included) and caters to nostalgia. At least, the critics who did like TLJ for breaking new ground have seemed to find Solo underwhelming in its conventionalism and safeness. (Disclaimer: I haven't seen it yet myself, so this is not my own opinion.) So it follows that people who disliked TLJ might have preferred Solo. Thus I'm not sure one can presume a causal connection between TLJ criticism and Solo's underperformance. They just seem too different in approach.

The broad strokes of the argument (which for the record I disagree with) is that TLJ literally soured the franchise as a whole and Solo suffered by association rather than being directly pre judged on the basis of TLJ.

To me that seems very unlikely, it's a way of cherry picking from a sequence of events to find a narrative which suits a predetermined interpretation. There are plenty of more viable hypotheses which might explain Solo's underperformance; timing, market saturation, poor and belated marketing.

Certainly I doubt very much whether the Russian intelligence apparatus would set out knowingly to attack a hollwood movie's reception if the only outcome was to reduce sales of it's sequel. SW wouldn't be the target at all, it would be one of many weapons employed in the broader campaign of using ideological divisions to destabilise their rivals, after all in many ways SW is the perfect vehicle for that, with it's popularity so neatly (though obviously not exclusively) dovetailing with the geopolitical reach of NATO and it's existing political themes being so ripe for exacerbating existing dissent in the West.

 

[DigificWriter]

Star Wars is meant to be the escape from this world.

It really isn't.

Star Wars has always been influenced by real-world politics and included political themes and subjects in its narrative.

 

[BillJ]

I have to admit, while I understand creating divisiveness in an election, I have a hard time of the idea of doing so through reaction to a movie.

Continuing the theme of the white male Christian feeling like he is under attack.

 

[Jedi_Master]

The most common reaction to this article? "I am not a bot or a troll, and I didn't like The Last Jedi"
Fair enough, but can anyone honestly say that their negative (or positive) opinion wasn't in some way shaped or enhanced by an outside influence, or that they were drawn into an argument about the film by someone they don't know?
The efforts allegedly sponsored by the Russian intelligence services were aimed at inflaming passions and generating controversial discourse - not about an objective analysis of the film but about the subjective issues connected to the film. In that vein, I think they were very successful.

 

[BillJ]

Fair enough, but can anyone honestly say that their negative (or positive) opinion wasn't in some way shaped or enhanced by an outside influence...

I don't think mine was. I still have the same opinion of the film that I had on opening night. Some of it worked, some of it didn't. Overall, it was enjoyable.

Or that they were drawn into an argument about the film by someone they don't know?

Having a conversation with someone you don't know, is the entirety of the internet experience for most folks. Still doesn't excuse acting like an ass. We're looking for folks to blame, when we only need to look to ourselves for why things get out of hand on the internet.

 

[Awesome Possum]

It was interesting that it also found that nothing about the films had changed, any talk of them being "political" was due to a small group of fans becoming radically politicized and now finding that everything is political, which is what happens when you become radically politicized. But I really don't care that it ruined media for them.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It's no surprise that a sophisticated national intelligence service with decades of experience in manipulating individuals perceptions, thoughts, emotions, and actions would be able to figure out how to use the Internet in a disruptive manner. I don't think it's "casting blame" when you are looking for reasons why certain people got so upset over various arguments... or were so likely to troll or respond unreasonably when there was a subjective difference over a film.

 

[Christopher]

It was interesting that it also found that nothing about the films had changed, any talk of them being "political" was due to a small group of fans becoming radically politicized and now finding that everything is political, which is what happens when you become radically politicized. But I really don't care that it ruined media for them.

And of course they think that expressing one's worldview and beliefs is only political when it's being done by the other side and not their own.

 

[UssGlenn]

So it follows that people who disliked TLJ might have preferred Solo. Thus I'm not sure one can presume a causal connection between TLJ criticism and Solo's underperformance. They just seem too different in approach.

The broad strokes of the argument (which for the record I disagree with) is that TLJ literally soured the franchise as a whole and Solo suffered by association rather than being directly pre judged on the basis of TLJ.

I on the other hand agree, with the "soured the franchise as a whole" argument, though not in such stark terms. I'll bet almost everyone who is an active Star Wars fan saw Solo in the theater at least once. What we are dealing with here is the nebulous whims of the casual viewing audience. They go see the numbered films and it doesn't take all that much to throw off the momentum. If TLJ left them with a not positve feeling when the left the theater, even if they can't define why, then their Star Wars momentum may have been disrupted enough to wait for Solo at home. I saw Solo in the theater. My wife waited until the home release. Similarly, I saw Jurrasic World in the theater, but I didn't bother to see Fallen Kingdom. I'll catch it at home when I feel like it.

 

[BillJ]

I on the other hand agree, with the "soured the franchise as a whole" argument, though not in such stark terms. I'll bet almost everyone who is an active Star Wars fan saw Solo in the theater at least once. What we are dealing with here is the nebulous whims of the casual viewing audience. They go see the numbered films and it doesn't take all that much to throw off the momentum. If TLJ left them with a not positve feeling when the left the theater, even if they can't define why, then their Star Wars momentum may have been disrupted enough to wait for Solo at home. I saw Solo in the theater. My wife waited until the home release. Similarly, I saw Jurrasic World in the theater, but I didn't bother to see Fallen Kingdom. I'll catch it at home when I feel like it.

I don't think Solo is a very good barometer on whether or not The Last Jedi soured casual viewers, Episode IX will give us a far better idea about how fandom sees the current trilogy.

I do think Solo was done in by Rogue One. A nice movie that added nothing to the narrative. Once audiences saw that was all the side stories were going to be, they were more than content to catch it at home.

 

[Spot261]

I on the other hand agree, with the "soured the franchise as a whole" argument, though not in such stark terms. I'll bet almost everyone who is an active Star Wars fan saw Solo in the theater at least once. What we are dealing with here is the nebulous whims of the casual viewing audience. They go see the numbered films and it doesn't take all that much to throw off the momentum. If TLJ left them with a not positve feeling when the left the theater, even if they can't define why, then their Star Wars momentum may have been disrupted enough to wait for Solo at home. I saw Solo in the theater. My wife waited until the home release. Similarly, I saw Jurrasic World in the theater, but I didn't bother to see Fallen Kingdom. I'll catch it at home when I feel like it.

Yet here's the rub, post showing audience ratings for TLJ were sky high, as were early Rotten Tomatoes scores. The evidence suggests people generally didn't leave the cinema feeling the way you describe, at least not on the scale the argument would require to hold water.

On the contrary the evidence points to there being a later shift in perceptions which correlated with the increase in online aggression towards the movie. That's a totally different scenario and fits entirely the model where the TLJ "backlash" was artificially manipulated and this study is an eye opener because suddenly a lot of the missing pieces of the jigsaw now seem to fit. The discrepancy (which I'm far from being the only one to have been pointing out for months now) between initial positive reactions and later controversy now makes a lot more sense if there was an active involvement in manipulating "the mob" and there's ample evidence and precedent for how easily that can be done under the right conditions and this all fits together very neatly.

SW as a whole is simply too big a franchise, too ingrained into our culture and with too big an ardent fanbase to literally be brought down by bad reactions to one film, the prequels have shown us that

Solo though was a completely different beast to TLJ and has all the hallmarks of having been due to individually fail anyway. It came out on the coattails of two much bigger, better marketed releases in a season that was already saturated by the sci fi genre at the time. It was so poorly advertised and marketed and so late in the day that a major segment of the general viewing public weren't even aware of it's existence, much less in a position to evaluate it in relation to another film.

It should by rights have been a major success, but it was mishandled and badly timed and that would have scuppered it without TLJ. It's simply a question then of applying Occam's Razor. If we have a perfectly workable set of hyoptheses for Solo's failure, why reach for unfounded and speculative explanations which don't fit the data and are clearly ideological in origin?

 

[Qonundrum]

While it obviously has some flaws, I liked TLJ a hell of a lot more than I liked TFA, so it would be reassuring to think that not all of the bile directed at it was genuine.

Makes you wonder just how awesome IX will be... or not...

The Soviets were Red. Putin's Russia is pretty much the exact opposite ideologically, far-right and white Christian nationalist, which is why the American right wing loves Russia these days. The fact that Putin was formerly head of the Soviet KGB, or that the Russian government is indistinguishable from the Russian mob, doesn't seem to faze them much.

All of the American right-wing? Some, yes, but all? Most right-wingers I know of keep slamming CNN as "Communist News Network" so somewhere there's a weird disconnect. Some of them believe in the same libertarian stuff that some of the cuckoos on left-wing YouTube channels spout. It was one of those fringe shows, "Secular Talk". Kyle claims to be one but the news he takes from other sources and makes childish editorializing on suggest otherwise. But the word here is "show". Shows are for entertainment and not to be taken seriously.)

I find the entire premise hard to swallow. Somehow I just don't get the vibe that world governments care on whit about Star Wars fandom- although I can see why the Hollywood Reporter might think so, since Hollywood seems to think the world revolves around it.

Remember guys and gals, don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you read, if that. Especially now, in the age of Information Warfare.

Depending on whom you ask, you'll get quite a different and exotic answer, sometimes with a theorized set of circumstances to lend credibility to the theory.

 

[ALF]

It really isn't.

Star Wars has always been influenced by real-world politics and included political themes and subjects in its narrative.

Yes, but I'm not arguing against that, Star Wars is an escape from my own life. All fiction is. Watching Star Wars takes one out of their own head/world and into a fictional one. That's all I'm referring to - the experience of watching. Not the inspiration for the content.

 

[Qonundrum]

It really isn't.

Star Wars has always been influenced by real-world politics and included political themes and subjects in its narrative.

Yes, but look at the differences of approach. The situations were generic and whittled down. Now they go after more direct situations though actual name pointing is rare. Remember the "V" remake in 2009? They clearly slammed Obama quite a bit, and whether the writers were right or wrong is another argument. That is an example of why people conflate "the past was never political" when, in fact, it was but not in such a heavyhanded way. At least in sci-fi. Comedy slammed politicians all the time, and that fad started in the 1960s.

 

[Owain Taggart]

While it obviously has some flaws, I liked TLJ a hell of a lot more than I liked TFA, so it would be reassuring to think that not all of the bile directed at it was genuine.

Same here, although I think much of what I've seen was directed at how Luke was treated and I think some of that is genuine. I personally didn't have a problem with it, however.