Star Trek: Short Treks
- Thread starter ITDUDE
- Start date
Early concept for Saru.
Oh. So, we won't get that? Bummer!
Honest question:
Is there ANY viewer that watches DIS that wasn't already a Trekke before?
Yeah, I know a few people that have seen literally none of Star Trek before. And they like Disco.
Yeah, I know a few people that have seen literally none of Star Trek before. And they like Disco.
Really?
Wow.
Really?
Wow.
Obviously I have nothing more than anecdotal evidence here, but I truly think it's not that uncommon, at least outside of US where it's on Netflix and you don't have to get another subscription service to watch it. Since Netflix's catalog is usually way smaller than US Netflix(it varies from country to country), and Disco is a big budget fancy show I'd say a lot of people have at least checked it out. And since Enterprise went off air over 13 years ago, I'd say it's a fair chance that for many this is the first Star Trek thing they've ever watched, especially teens and people in their early 20s.
I guess for outside the US you might absolutely be right!
Very much so. Without wanting to sound like an asshole towards Americans, but as Europeans, we often find Americans asume that what they have, the whole world must have. Our Netflix in the Netherlands is quite limited really.
If I remember correctly, as soon as a Marvel or Star Wars movie is out on dvd/bluray, it's on Netflix for you as well, right? Often, it takes about 4 months after the homevideo release for a movie to land on Netflix, IF it lands on Netflix. Only since last year do we get weekly episodes of a lot of CW shows. On average, it takes a few months after a season is finished in the US for it to land on Dutch Netflix. Since last year, they brokered a deal where we get shows like Arrow and Flash a day after it airs in the US.
I was in school until I graduated this year and I know multiple people who are in my age and never watched old Trek but watched Discovery because it was on Netflix.
Sure, if DISCO were on Netflix in the US that would no doubt be true there too.
My mother watched re-runs of the original series when she was younger. And there's a vile person in my pub that has watched some of DSC but is a TNG fan. But basically everyone else I know that watches DSC is completely new to Star Trek, but have seen all or some of the JJ movies.Really?
Wow.
Everyone jumps in at different points. Not everyone jumps in from the beginning.
I have some friends of the family who used to watch TNG (who didn't watch TNG in the early-'90s?), but they weren't fans of Star Trek in general. But they're watching Discovery. Yes, the JJ Abrams films probably helped get them back into it and made them interested in seeing more. They weren't fans like any of us posting here. Discovery isn't exclusive to fans like us.
I'm also not fond of the strongly implied undercurrent of "Oh, well we all know Older Star Trek was better!" Actually, NO. I like DSC better. As in I think it's better than most previous Star Trek. I may have sampled Star Trek: Discovery because I like Star Trek but I'm still watching because I like Discovery.
I have some friends of the family who used to watch TNG (who didn't watch TNG in the early-'90s?), but they weren't fans of Star Trek in general. But they're watching Discovery. Yes, the JJ Abrams films probably helped get them back into it and made them interested in seeing more. They weren't fans like any of us posting here. Discovery isn't exclusive to fans like us.
I'm also not fond of the strongly implied undercurrent of "Oh, well we all know Older Star Trek was better!" Actually, NO. I like DSC better. As in I think it's better than most previous Star Trek. I may have sampled Star Trek: Discovery because I like Star Trek but I'm still watching because I like Discovery.
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Well, that's actually good to hear!
Because in between being behind a paywall on CBS All Access, a channel that (currently) has literally nothing else of substance to offer, I was fearing us Trekkies became a gated community. Where it's almost impossible to jump on "by chance", because you have to purposefully find and pay for it to access it in the first place. And thus risking a more and more shrinking fanbase that keeps the IP alive solely by shelling more and more money per person into it.
But the thing is: Older Trek WAS better. To be fair, "older" Trek was, like, in the 60s, and even TNG was made in the 80s, that's ancient history by now.
But still, if you put them side-by-side, DIS barely stands it's ground next to previous Trek shows. Wherin some episodes of DIS are better than what you saw on, say, Voyager at any given time. But the overall arc of an entire season did less with the klingons and their stoyrline than a single episode of TNG accomplished.
And the big difference is, back in the day, Trek was the trend-setter. The absolute best television had to offering in the genre. Nowadays it's comparable to some 90s shows from the same IP, but actual modern genre television is miles and miles ahead of it.
Even something like the rebooted Lost in Space, which suffered heavily from Netflix bloat, and was overall probably the most conservative new iteration of a space opera show possible, somehow manages to be more modern and creative with the genre than friggin' Star Trek.
I was tempted to take the easy way out and say this is just a matter of your opinion versus mine, but I won't. That would be too easy and would just be a cop-out on my part. So, let's look at this past and present...
VOY and ENT weren't trend-setters. DS9? Ehhhhh. I'm going to say no, as much as I like it. TNG was a trend-setter but half the episodes weren't that great. It's overrated. Farscape and Battlestar Galactica were miles ahead of VOY and ENT. TNG was the only sci-fi game in town most of the time it was on. Without TNG, you wouldn't have most of the sci-fi that came out in the '90s and '00s, which is why I call it a trend-setter. Not because I think it was great. On average, I thought it was okay. It was "Star Trek for the Family".
As far as Discovery versus current series: The Orville intentionally models itself off of Star Trek circa fifth season TNG. That's what it feels like. That's the tone and vibe they're going for. When I'm reminded of Star Trek that was on when I was in seventh grade, that's not cutting edge. Westworld, I haven't seen that and I'm sure it's great but how different is it from other JJ Abrams series? Is it cutting edge or is it just his latest show? Game of Thrones strikes me as something that's more like Lord of the Rings. It's a different type of series than Star Trek would ever be, so it's apples and oranges. Then there's The Expanse, which is probably the most sensible show to compare Discovery to. Other than Lost In Space. What I've seen of Lost In Space is a crisp, clean, family show in space and its adventures. Again, very different from Discovery.
What we're looking at here are different shows looking at doing different things in their own way. One is no more "ahead" than the other. Which takes us back to: which one appeals to an individual's tastes more? Which brings it back to being a matter of opinion. When it comes to opinion, there's no "right" or "wrong" and never will be.
VOY and ENT weren't trend-setters. DS9? Ehhhhh. I'm going to say no, as much as I like it. TNG was a trend-setter but half the episodes weren't that great. It's overrated. Farscape and Battlestar Galactica were miles ahead of VOY and ENT. TNG was the only sci-fi game in town most of the time it was on. Without TNG, you wouldn't have most of the sci-fi that came out in the '90s and '00s, which is why I call it a trend-setter. Not because I think it was great. On average, I thought it was okay. It was "Star Trek for the Family".
As far as Discovery versus current series: The Orville intentionally models itself off of Star Trek circa fifth season TNG. That's what it feels like. That's the tone and vibe they're going for. When I'm reminded of Star Trek that was on when I was in seventh grade, that's not cutting edge. Westworld, I haven't seen that and I'm sure it's great but how different is it from other JJ Abrams series? Is it cutting edge or is it just his latest show? Game of Thrones strikes me as something that's more like Lord of the Rings. It's a different type of series than Star Trek would ever be, so it's apples and oranges. Then there's The Expanse, which is probably the most sensible show to compare Discovery to. Other than Lost In Space. What I've seen of Lost In Space is a crisp, clean, family show in space and its adventures. Again, very different from Discovery.
What we're looking at here are different shows looking at doing different things in their own way. One is no more "ahead" than the other. Which takes us back to: which one appeals to an individual's tastes more? Which brings it back to being a matter of opinion. When it comes to opinion, there's no "right" or "wrong" and never will be.
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You don't know what you're ralking about. Farscape was made 1999 - 2003. Firefly from 2003 - 2004. Battlestar Galactica between 2003 - 2009.
Voyager ran from 1995 to 2001. During it's entire run it was THE new science fiction show on air.Same for DS9 - while being in direct competition with Babylon 5 - neverless was the "big" space station show between the two. Farscape started late when Voyger was already wrapping up, and still modelled itself after the Star Trek franchise. Everything else came later. And that's not even talking about TOS and TNG, which weren't just the best and only serious scifi shows around at the time, but absolute mainstream television juggernauts, period.
I'll give you Enterprise. That show, while still being very high-end for it's time (more than DIS is now for certain), actually wasn't the one show revolutionizing the genre, but just surfing on the wave like all the other sci-fi franchises of that time. Like, say, Stargate did as well.
But pretending all of this didn't start with Star Trek, and somehow trying to understate the franchise's role in it's past (one of "two" space franchises - Star Wars being the other one) - while at the same time pretending DIS is anything more than an absolute niché show for a highly select audience - is really just not knowing what you're talking about.
And how sad is it that a third-tier comedy show aping a popular 80s(!) scifi-show somehow dwarfes the current Star Trek show both in it's audience size and mainstream influence?
Excuse me? "You don't know what you're talking about." I'm going to ignore that comment.
For the rest.
'99-'00... VOY Season 6, Farscape Season 1
'00-'01... VOY Season 7, Farscape Season 2
'01-'02... ENT Season 1, Farscape Season 3
'02-'03... ENT Season 2, Farscape Season 4
'03-'04... ENT Season 3, BSG Mini-Series
'04-'05... ENT Season 4, BSG Season 1
They were on at the same time. They didn't all start at the same time but they did overlap. Anything that's on at the same time is fair game as competition and that's six years of overlap that I listed. Six years that I jumped ship from Star Trek for something else. Early-Farscape was better than late-Voyager. And I think BSG Season 1 (plus the Mini) versus ENT Season 3 and 4 speaks for itself.
During the Turn of the Millennium, I was watching Farscape instead of Voyager. After that, I was still watching Farscape but bailed on Enterprise after six episodes. When I saw Battlestar Galactica in 2005, my thought about Enterprise was "Enter-what???" There was -- and is -- no comparison.
EDIT: Oh, and by the way, Farscape was better than Enterprise too. Farscape was around, Rick Berman could've looked at that, but he was more than happy to keep putting out the same Star Trek he'd been putting out, that had gone stale by 2001, except with a different cover on it.
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The Good Fight says hello.
For your information, I did say this:
Without TNG, you wouldn't have most of the sci-fi that came out in the '90s and '00s, which is why I call it a trend-setter. Not because I think it was great. On average, I thought it was okay. It was "Star Trek for the Family".
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I literally credited TNG with the existence of the bulk of the next two decades' worth of sci-fi TV in the second half of my second paragraph in Post #196 of this thread. But that's all on TNG. Not the Star Trek series that came after it.
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