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Enterprise-D destruction

The TNG uniforms looked fine on film. They're used in the finished movie and hold up better than the DS9 unis do. While I can kinda see the argument about the sets, although I'll simply make the case they look fine in high definition on Blu Ray when projected on a big screen and leave it at that (;)), the uniforms were fine. I like to think they just didn't like the new ones they'd designed for the movie and panicked, hence someone press ganging the DS9 unis into service. Or else the plan to use them on Voyager was well underway and they wanted to show starship crew transitioning to the new unis in order to explain why Janeway and crew are not wearing the TNG ones (which IMHO was kind of an error too :p :D)
I believe the story of the uniforms is pretty well documented: they wanted all new uniforms for everyone, but the budget only allowed new uniforms for Picard and Data. They used TNG uniforms for some things, but for others they borrowed DS9 uniforms, and Riker's uniform is one of Sisko's because that was the only red one in approximately the correct size. (Very approximate, as people often comment on how badly it fit.)

I agree with you that I don't see the problems that supposedly are there, enough so that I am leaning towards believing the experts were wrong about this.
But given that they have said they wanted new uniforms specifically because the old ones were ill suited to film, and they said they needed new sets for the same reason, it seems likely that they felt the same way about the model of the ship, because needing new sets doesn't justify destroying the ship by itself.
Then again, maybe the simplest solution is that they were dumb.
 
Then again, maybe the simplest solution is that they were dumb.
Either that or they wanted to ensure that the toys and other merchandise for the film sold well, and they knew that offering figurines that looked identical to the ones that had been on the market for the last five or so years would go down like a lead balloon.
 
Lucky escape really. Those aborted uniforms were dreadful, and Voyager would have been stuck with them for seven years.
 
I don't think it counts as dodging the bullet that they didn't use terrible new uniforms when just using the old uniforms is still a better idea than what they did.
 
In regards to the uniforms, it really stunk being a kid and getting all the action figures from Generations and having none of them save for Kirk look like they did in the movie (in addition to the toy lines articulation problems).

The battle damaged Enterprise D was cool though.
 
In regards to the uniforms, it really stunk being a kid and getting all the action figures from Generations and having none of them save for Kirk look like they did in the movie (in addition to the toy lines articulation problems).

The battle damaged Enterprise D was cool though.
Plus Kirk in a spacesuit he also never wore in the film. Playmates got really screwed on that line.
 
I did like that the Generations toy line had an Engineering playset which (true to the movie) could undergo a warp core breach, but which (unlike the movie) Geordi could stop using a special tool. :D
 
I'd remove Kirk and co. It wouldn't be a vast a improvement, but it would fix a lot of my issues with Generations in terms of the use of Kirk, his friends and how the new Captain of the Enterprise-B was made to look useless. The fact that Kirks exclusion wouldn't make much difference to the movie plot is a sad thing to notice.

This would however enable us to expand on the core cast.
 
The idea of a David vs Goliath battle with the old ass underdog ship pummeling the big superior one to death is actually a pretty cool idea. The problem with the sequence as filmed is we get no real idea of the damage being inflicted on Enterprise by this fast little thing doing strafing runs on the slow lumbering Federation flagship because all the damage we see happening is from the inside of the ship -- the bridge sets shaking, consoles blowing up, the desperation of the crew to find a quick solution, etc -- but there are unforgivably few shots of the two ships in orbit. Maybe only two or three. If we pay very close attention we see the bridge shake maybe twenty times and the aft consoles explode at one point, it's clear that the Klingon ship is running rings around them and the Enterprise caught unawares can't keep up (maybe the BOP took out the other weapons systems?), but we don't get to SEE it, so the whole thing feels lame.

Another hint of things we don't get to see: Geordi declares the coolant leak that brings down the ship to have been caused by "that last torpedo", but we never got to see the BOP launching torpedoes at Enterprise. It clearly happened, but it all happens off screen. We never saw any of it.

The whole thing needed more optical shots of the ships battling it out, to help sell the idea of the pasting the Enterprise is taking.

As a rule, among vehicles built for speed, the large vehicles are faster, not slow and lumbering. And in space, there is no liquid or gaseous medium to put more drag on larger vehicles as opposed to smaller ships. The whole idea of tiny vehicles being faster than larger vehicles goes back to the apples and oranges situation in World War II when tiny planes from aircraft carriers were much faster than aircraft carriers or battleships, because they operated in a much thinner medium which offered much less resistance and drag. That is not the case in outer space.

Furthermore, way back in TOS it was established that the effective ranges of starship phasers was tens and even hundreds of thousands of kilometers. But of course the more advanced phasers in the Next Generation should have much longer effective ranges. And a much larger ship like a Galaxy class should have much more powerful phasers than a small Klingon bird of prey, and thus have much longer range phasers. The bird of prey should have been unable to fire on the Enterprise because it would have had to spend some time travelling through the "kill zone" of the Enterprise in order to get within range to use it's own phasers.

On November 20 of 1944, the submarine Sealion (1,500 tons) sank the battleship Kongo (37,000 tons).

The battleship Kongo was restricted to traveling at the interface between two mediums, air and water, and had no vertical freedom of movement. The vertical freedom of movement of Sealion was also quite restricted, but much greater than that of Kongo. More importantly, the Sealion traveled in a medium, water, that is quite opaque at large distances, and so was hidden from Kongo until it fired its torpedoes. Space is transparent. Very, very, very transparent. There is nowhere for a smaller and weaker ship to hide and surprise their more powerful enemy in space.

In space, everyone can see you trying to sneak up.

...
Imagine an alternative version where the lumbering 'Goliath' starship is being circle strafed by the BOP, still putting up a dramatic fight and with the incredible image of Veridian III in space as a backdrop

Imagine it, as a battle scene taking place in close proximity of a planet, perhaps even actually in orbit.I

As said above, the huge "Goliath" starships are the fast ones and the small "David" starships are slow and lumbering. Thus it was the Enterprise that could have circle strafed the bird of prey.

And once the shields dropped Riker could have simply ordered the Enterprise to leave and they could have zoomed away in a split second. Thus the battle would not be happening near Veridian III for very long. Which would be good for the health of the natives. Once they figured out how to defeat the bird of prey they could have returned to confront it.
 
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From that perspective I'd say one issue then would be that the E-D was within the BoP's attack range to begin with. Granted they needed to do the prisoner exchange, but no reason they couldn't have backed off after that.
 
You know, for all the crap people (justly) give Riker about his decisions during the battle, the Duras Sisters didn't exactly cover themselves in glory either. They had the ability to cloak, as well as knowing how to penetrate the Enterprise's shields... so they just sat there taking leisurely potshots at her.

If they'd gone into cloak beforehand, decloaked, sucker-punched the Enterprise where it hurts, then recloaked, rinse and repeat, Data's plan would never have worked (since Worf wouldn't have known where to aim his torpedo), and the Durases could probably have blown the ship to shreds before they even had a chance to separate the saucer.
 
That's kind of the point...the sisters lose because they toy with the E-D rather than, say, starting by blowing up the bridge.

IIRC the sisters are actually targeting the bridge when the pulse comes along and ruins their day.
 
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