Stage 9 gets cease and desist order from CBS

[Zod]

The ONLY way to become 'compliant' here is to PAY a licensing fee (assuming CBS would grant them one) - this wasn't a Fan Film. CBS has granted licenses to a couple of PC developers for games and the like (Cryptic Studios and Star Trek Online for example).

I understand your point of view. I disagree with the entire IP system and how its implemented. It needs much updating in my view which I won't go into here. I believe it stifles creativity as currently constituted but thats an argument for another time as it doesn't help these poor guys.

 

[Zod]

IP Law is not "my opinion" as I'd very soon find out as these people have if I infringed on copyrights.

LOL you are wrong on that one. Each case can have more than one position. Each law open to interpretation. Litigation always has two positions and guess what? You can make the same arguments before two different Judges and sometimes get a different opinion. Law is most certainly opinion!

 

[bolak]

Hmmm.
Star Trek is an intellectual property of CBS. CBS decided that Stage 9 was infringing on its intellectual property, and sent a C&D.

'Star Trek' is indeed a trademarked phrase ( a word trademark ), which is easy enough to bypass through omission. As are NCC-1701, James T Kirk, Spock etc. But to go beyond that CBS would need design trademarks on each visual element they claimed to be infringing*. Like the 1701-D bridge layout, and the captain's chair, and the shape of shuttlecraft, and the shape and decor of the corridors and... but of course it falls on the alleged infringer to prove that they haven't violate one or more that is registered.


One doesn't simply get handed an automatic blanket design trademark for every form and colour on screen. One does get copyright for what is filmed, however, to prevent it being copied into other productions.*

* For example: Lucas Arts has carefully registered design trademarks for each type of light-sabre seen in the Star Wars films.

** This being the problem with Axanar Productions. They were accused of infringing on copyright in terms of the dialogue, settings and fictional history of the episodes and films which relates specifically to "the exclusive right to develop, create, and/or produce motion pictures and television shows based on the Star Trek Copyrighted Works".

 

[XCV330]

Effective 9/26/2018 I've lost any respect and support i've had for CBS. I'm no longer watching Young and the Restless and Bold and the Beautiful.

The Foundations of the CBS Building tremble

 

[Starfury]

IP Law is not "my opinion" as I'd very soon find out as these people have if I infringed on copyrights.

No one is going after such a small fish, but... the picture in your avatar isn't owned by you either. Just saying.

 

[Kemaiku]

No one is going after such a small fish, but... the picture in your avatar isn't owned by you either. Just saying.

I'm not claiming it as original work, charging you to look at it, hosting it on anything owned by me. Avatars are only a copyright issue when you take them from 3rd party artists without permission. Cropping images from a liscened work has been allowed since the day they were invented. (And I've bought Brave 4 times, I think that counts.)

I mean I'd point out how poor an argument it is, especially from someone using practically the same thing, going the extra mile to take an image made by one person (look up the patch on MA, someone made that in their spare time).

These people assembled a group in a studio and involved money to generate new material based on an existing IP, what two years after Axanar made it clear this way a major no-no.

Don't involve money, that's the biggest way to lose.

 

[Starfury]

I mean I'd point out how poor an argument it is, especially from someone using practically the same thing

That's actually the point I was trying to make. I never claimed I owned my avatar. You were the one, claiming you would never use copyrighted material. You do. In a small, insignificant and no-harm way, but... still.

These people assembled a group in a studio and involved money to generate new material based on an existing IP, what two years after Axanar made it clear this way a major no-no.
Don't involve money, that's the biggest way to lose.

Okay, that's new to me. There was money involved? I thought the project was completely money-free.

 

[Kor]

There seems to be some misunderstanding of intellectual property and what constitutes infringement. Anyone who chooses to play in someone else's 'sandbox' runs the risk of having their project shut down. That's not a value judgment as to the quality of the work; it's simply how things work in the real world.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. CBS/Paramount has actually been quite accommodating when it comes to fan-produced derivative works. Some IP holders simply don't tolerate it at all. And that's their right.

Edited to add:

...
Okay, that's new to me. There was money involved? I thought the project was completely money-free.

It sounds like their Youtube videos had ads, which means ad revenue.

Kor

 

[Rekkert]

We never took any money for our work on Stage 9, nor did we assemble in a studio. We understand CBS's right to protect their IP and respect that, but that comment is flat out wrong, we're not Axanar.

We always knew a C&D could happen, but we did what we did out of passion for TNG, not monetary gain. In fact in our conversations with CBS, money was never an issue that was brought up.

 

[Starfury]

We always knew a C&D could happen, but we did what we did out of passion for TNG, not monetary gain. In fact in our conversations with CBS, money was never an issue that was brought up.

Let me guess: It was the Name "Enterprise-D" and maybe the names/likeness of some of the characters?

 

[Rekkert]

The name 'Enterprise', plus the name Stage 9 (which apparently is licensed by Paramount), and the use of the TNG font for our logo, which is copyrighted in its own right.

 

[Starfury]

That... sucks :/ But I think even if you had created the USS Othername with another font and another name like "Stage Ten" they would eventually have come after you.

 

[valkyrie013]

CBS usually turns a blind eye towards small time projects like this, its not like they have a floor of people surfing the internet looking for IP violations ( they would run out of paper printing C&D's if they did that!) Usually its a license holder that asks CBS to protect there license. So in this case a game company or someone like that informed CBS that this site/product is infringing on there license, and then CBS sends out a C&D. So basically, CBS (and usually most corporate IP owners, though smaller IP owners are hawks with there stuff, try writing a Harry Potter thingy) only move in to action when asked, or if its blatent like Axanar.
Basically, anything that has appeared on screen is there IP. Period.

Take a look at Comic/anime cons, every piece of "Fan Art" that those stalls sell are IP infrengment.
Some people do try to take the high road and ask for a license, but they don't have like $40,000 just to get an apointment.
If you don't like IP laws now, look at the EU and what they want to do, basically FORCING sites to police themselves for IP violations, and if they don't, THEY get fined. Even for Meme's, or like these avatar pictures would be an IP violaiton. Draconian.

 

[Kemaiku]

That's actually the point I was trying to make. I never claimed I owned my avatar. You were the one, claiming you would never use copyrighted material. You do. In a small, insignificant and no-harm way, but... still.



Okay, that's new to me. There was money involved? I thought the project was completely money-free.

Fair enough

And that's the dodgy part. Even spending money, while not asking for any for the finished product, is a big issue sometimes. It really comes down to how the money is spent, in terms of trying to create something seen as slightly competitive to the live action productions.

It's entirely up to how each project allocates funds, what they plan to do with it, how they release it, and how that impacts CBS legal protection. This group happened on the wrong side of things this time. Not all projects do.

 

[Starfury]

Fair enough

And that's the dodgy part. Even spending money, while not asking for any for the finished product, is a big issue sometimes. It really comes down to how the money is spent, in terms of trying to create something seen as slightly competitive to the live action productions.

I tend to believe the stage 9-team when they say that there was no money involved (we are, after all talking about a virtual tour project, not a fan-film). In the end it propably just comes down to there being (at least) two virtual ship-projects at the same time. One is licensed and... well, medicore in my opinion, and one is not licensed and quite fantastic (of course it is, fans have a lot more time for finetuning). One had to go. It's clear which one. It's the right of the license holder, but that doesn't make it less sucky. :/

 

[Rekkert]

The main issue we had, the main "mistake", that put us in danger, was releasing playable versions regularly, something that no other fan game or recreation project is doing at this point. That took us out of the realm of 'fan art' and into the realm of 'fan game', and a whole lot of different legal issues arose with that. We know full well that if we didn't release and developed this quietly, this wouldn't have happened.

We're not sorry for releasing, hell I wouldn't be part of the team if it weren't for the early releases that I played.

Fans all over are sending us thank you messages for letting them relive their childhood dreams, or reconnect with their sons or parents over the project. That's something we're very proud of, and if that's the trade off for having released the project, so be it, we're happy to let that be the legacy of the project if Stage 9 is indeed no more.

 

[Jedman67]

I'm going to try to get the most recent released version, just to have fun playing around with it. Would be great if it could be shelved for now and attempted again in another year or two, not that I'm expecting it.

 

[urbandefault]

'Star Trek' is indeed a trademarked phrase ( a word trademark ), which is easy enough to bypass through omission. As are NCC-1701, James T Kirk, Spock etc. But to go beyond that CBS would need design trademarks on each visual element they claimed to be infringing*. Like the 1701-D bridge layout, and the captain's chair, and the shape of shuttlecraft, and the shape and decor of the corridors and... but of course it falls on the alleged infringer to prove that they haven't violate one or more that is registered.


One doesn't simply get handed an automatic blanket design trademark for every form and colour on screen. One does get copyright for what is filmed, however, to prevent it being copied into other productions.*

* For example: Lucas Arts has carefully registered design trademarks for each type of light-sabre seen in the Star Wars films.

** This being the problem with Axanar Productions. They were accused of infringing on copyright in terms of the dialogue, settings and fictional history of the episodes and films which relates specifically to "the exclusive right to develop, create, and/or produce motion pictures and television shows based on the Star Trek Copyrighted Works".

I understand the difference between copyright and trademark, even though I never mentioned either one specifically. Thanks anyway.

 

[mos6507]

Infringement doesn't have anything to do with making money. It's about using an IP without permission.

You mean like Star Trek Continues or Phase II?

 

[mos6507]

That took us out of the realm of 'fan art' and into the realm of 'fan game'

If that's the case, I would also expect Excalibur to get C&D, although at the rate they're going I doubt they'll ever finish anything anyway. BC2 filed off the serial numbers and yet is still nowhere near playable.