Fandom is so toxic right now

[Kelthaz]

I completely forgot about the Commodore. Yes, that was a little uncomfortable, but I think the idea was to show how much crap Hyacinth would put up with due to her obsession over her social status. She never flat out rejected him and instead played along with his antics because she was using him to leech off his status, so I can't see her as a victim here.

 

[suarezguy]

Yeah, to me her still accepting him, at least not rejecting him, makes it still funny although decidedly dark funny.

 

[Kelthaz]

It's also worth noting that Hyacinth was told about the Commodore's reputation and despite that volunteered to give him a ride to the train station just to further her own status.

 

[Saul]

And there is a difference between sites like this, where we can bitch, within reasonable moderation, about actor A and writer B till the cows come home, and they’re nonethewiser, and things like Twitter, where the attacks are personal, directed, and threatening.

Unfortunately sometimes people equate the two and take it personally. If I didn't like baseball hats it seems to imply that I hate all people wearing baseball hats.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I completely forgot about the Commodore. Yes, that was a little uncomfortable, but I think the idea was to show how much crap Hyacinth would put up with due to her obsession over her social status. She never flat out rejected him and instead played along with his antics because she was using him to leech off his status, so I can't see her as a victim here.

Yeah, to me her still accepting him, at least not rejecting him, makes it still funny although decidedly dark funny.

It's also worth noting that Hyacinth was told about the Commodore's reputation and despite that volunteered to give him a ride to the train station just to further her own status.

I've only seen a handful of shows from this series, but frankly I was intrigued enough by the above exchange that I decided to watch it this morning. I suspect 23:40 starts the pertinent section you are referring to.

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In light of the current climate in the US, what with the #Metoo movement and now the #whyIdidn'treport twitter answer to the US President's question regarding his supreme court nominee's accuser, I find this point in your discussion enlightening.

Why Hyacinth shouldn't deserve pity for her treatment at the hands (literally) of the Commodore.

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How many men jockey in their work life to get ahead with their "betters", to try and utilize the "old boys network" to get promoted or to get a new job or get a raise?

Now, what if one of these men were going to "the station" to pick up Kevin Spacey?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...est-anthony-rapp-sex-assault-la-a8503651.html

What if they were forcibly kissed as was the head of the ladies club in the above clip, or forcibly groped while riding in the car WITH HIS VICAR IN THE FRONT SEAT, would you still be as dismissive of his experience? "Oh, he deserved it because people warned him Kevin was a letch and he went anyway, the suck-up!"

I can guess the average response to that question would be, "any guy who tried that with me would get punched!", but what if you are a 63 year old woman who was born in the year the stock market crashed, who tries to do what is "proper" at all times even when its not proper? What could she do when she told him I'M A MARRIED WOMAN and he still forced a kiss upon her and ran his hand up her leg?

She did what she could. Try to escape his attentions by rolling down the window and sticking herself half way out of the moving car, all the while telling the Vicar to keep driving so she could get rid of her harasser as quickly as possible. Stopping the car would have made the Commodore miss his train and he would have used it against her with her fellow club members, a disgrace socially conscious Hyacinth could not face. Sure, she could have told the truth, but in 1993 could she really expect the public to believe the dashing retired Commodore would have sexually assaulted socially disadvantaged her?

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Really?

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[Butters]

I don’t know what point I’m trying to make, but I’m reminded here of that episode of Friends where chandler complains about his boss slapping him on the arse, but every one else is jealous of the arse slapping favouritism.

 

[Kelthaz]

Okay, so first of all, let's establish that TV is not reality. Being okay with something that happens to a fictional character in a TV show is not the same thing as being okay with that happening to a real life person. Of course in real life I wouldn't be blaming Hyacinth, but this isn't real life. Keeping up Appearances is an over-the-top show about an overachieving socialite who goes to insane, cartoonish lengths to improve her social status and gets hoisted by her own petard in the process. That's where the humour comes from. We want to see Hyacinth fail and be punished for treating everyone like crap.

It also comes down to how the scene is portrayed. The scene where the Commodore has his hands all over Hyacinth was played for laughs, so the audience knows that Hyacinth isn't in any real danger. The Vicar is also there giving Hyacinth support and we all know that he'd step in if anything went too far despite Hyacinth's orders to "keep driving". We view the scene as cartoonish punishment for Hyacinth.

 

[Jayson1]

Okay, so first of all, let's establish that TV is not reality. Being okay with something that happens to a fictional character in a TV show is not the same thing as being okay with that happening to a real life person. Of course in real life I wouldn't be blaming Hyacinth, but this isn't real life. Keeping up Appearances is an over-the-top show about an overachieving socialite who goes to insane, cartoonish lengths to improve her social status and gets hoisted by her own petard in the process. That's where the humour comes from. We want to see Hyacinth fail and be punished for treating everyone like crap.

It also comes down to how the scene is portrayed. The scene where the Commodore has his hands all over Hyacinth was played for laughs, so the audience knows that Hyacinth isn't in any real danger. The Vicar is also there giving Hyacinth support and we all know that he'd step in if anything went too far despite Hyacinth's orders to "keep driving". We view the scene as cartoonish punishment for Hyacinth.

I haven't seen this show but this is a important point. Tv is not real. The people are not real people thus they can get away with things we don't accept in real life yet still be liked or be found interesting. Also genre is very important as is how the scene is written and acted. Chances are if something really comes off creepy or wrong it's because they made it to realistic to a point where it feels uncomfortable. Which actually is a good thing if your doing a adult drama that is aimed at realism but not all shows have that goal.

Jason

 

[JanewayRulz!]

How much danger Hyacinth was is is a matter of opinion, given the fact that the Commodore showed no restraint despite the fact that the vicar was driving and Hyacinth was actively rebuffing his advances in the back seat.

I was originally responding to your idea that with the passage of time, things that once were "funny" on TV could now be "a little uncomfortable." I used real world examples to demonstrate why things could now be considered "uncomfortable" 25 years after the episode first aired.

Sure, we like to see people's misconceptions blow up in their faces, but there's a difference between funny and cruel. Hyacinth did not volunteer to pick up the Commodore AFTER she learned of his reputation to further her own status. She volunteered BEFORE she knew about him. She unknowingly put herself in harms way when she offered to pick up the celebrity and just before leaving to pick him up, one of her fellow committee members felt bad enough about that fact she called Hyacinth at home to warn her. Hyacinth probably assumed her husband's presence would restrain the Commodore when they picked him up, alas they missed him at the depot. She went on to the luncheon, assuming he would be a no show and instead found a colleague gushing over the lecture the Commodore just gave. She offered him a ride back to the depot after the head of her club dissed Hyacinth in front of the "celebrity" for NOT picking him up as she had promised to do. At that point she wasn't trying to "further" her status, she was trying to save what little status she had after her epic fail that morning. And anyway... she had the vicar in the car, who could imagine someone trying to assault you with a cleric as a witness?

Yeah, in 2018 its a little uncomfortable.

In 1991, a friend convince me to go see "Sleeping with the Enemy,"

I hated it.

I hated it because I knew there were monsters out there like Martin Burney and with each passing day we are unfortunately reminded that there are predators out there like the Commodore.

Unlike "Sleeping with the Enemy", Hyacinth was unable to deliver a comeuppance to the Commodore like Laura gave to Martin before the final credits rolled.

 

[HugeLobes]

Dang, I didn't know the Keeping Up Appearances fandom was so fierce!

 

[Jayson1]

I didn't either. It could have something to do with the fact I didn't know their was a show called "Keeping Up Appearances." Who knows what else is out their I don't know about that people passionate and angry about! Granted I am the only person that knows about a old tv show I think called the "Golden Years" where the star was the dad from "My So Called Life." that got canned way to early but if it didn't it might have been a really great early 90's Sci-FI show.


Jason

 

[Phoenix219]

Do you mean the Stephen King miniseries?

 

[HugeLobes]

Since Keeping Up Appearances has been bought up, does anyone else picture the lady who played Hyacinth as Umbridge in Harry Potter? Think that casting would have been spot on.

 

[Jayson1]

Do you mean the Stephen King miniseries?

Nope. I did see the tv mini-series of that as well. I think it stared Ed Lauter. The dad to Wesley Crusher's friend who got killed in "The FIrst Duty." This show had the guy in the future in a old timers home and he was basically telling his grandchildren his life story. Each episode would focus on a different moment in his life. First episode was set in the 1989 San Fran Earthquake. Which I also found interesting that "Journeyman" years later would do a time travel story during that moment as well. Then I recall a future set episode set in 1999 where his was taken his son on a train trip for some reason.

Jason