If you get called toxic, it's probably because you are toxic. The problem is that many toxic people believe that they are completely justified and that what they did is normal.
Fandom is so toxic right now
- Thread starter Dave Scarpa
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Toxic might be overused, and I might understand it differently to others, but for me, the toxicity is where the negativity transcends the writing and the acting, and goes after the actors and the writers with malice, and hounding them over social media.
And there is a difference between sites like this, where we can bitch, within reasonable moderation, about actor A and writer B till the cows come home, and they’re nonethewiser, and things like Twitter, where the attacks are personal, directed, and threatening.
And there is a difference between sites like this, where we can bitch, within reasonable moderation, about actor A and writer B till the cows come home, and they’re nonethewiser, and things like Twitter, where the attacks are personal, directed, and threatening.
Also remember the all or nothing rule of internet social group classification.
That is, if a person disagrees with you 10%, treat them like they disagree with you 100%.
If they think PC culture is overreaching and attacks a few of the wrong people? They are racist sexist monsters who are mad they can’t say the N word.
If they think one male role should have been female? They are evil man haters who think there is no biological difference between men and women and all men should be forcibly castrated.
One female role should have been male? Well, they are sexist pigs who think women should go back to the kitchen.
That is, if a person disagrees with you 10%, treat them like they disagree with you 100%.
If they think PC culture is overreaching and attacks a few of the wrong people? They are racist sexist monsters who are mad they can’t say the N word.
If they think one male role should have been female? They are evil man haters who think there is no biological difference between men and women and all men should be forcibly castrated.
One female role should have been male? Well, they are sexist pigs who think women should go back to the kitchen.
I think any honest person would agree with that definition of "toxic".
As a matter of fact, I would say I enjoy watching because I enjoy the character.
The main Usenet Trek discussion group was rec.arts.startrek.current. The TV series-specific ones, at least in the early 1990s, were alt. groups, which weren't carried by all services that distributed Usenet groups, so r.a.s.c. was where the action was. And while it's true nobody said anything unequivocally and obnoxiously racist or sexist to the point of dropping the N bomb or its equivalents, as far as I recall, there were plenty of people who really didn't like having a black man or a white woman as a protagonist. They were just more polite about it, arguing that everybody who isn't a white male is used to watching white males, because the white male is the magic default form of humanity, but a white man can't be expected to relate to a woman or a black man. And oh, the cries of tokenism and political correctness. Yes, that shit happened a lot. Some of the prominent r.a.s.c. contributors like episode reviewer Tim Lynch and Doctor Who novelist Kate Orman even started an invitation-only email group to be able to discuss DS9 without all that toxic crap fouling up the conversations.
So, nobody ever has to justify an all white male cast, but an all female cast or a more ethnically diverse cast has to be justified. Interesting if true.
Many of the people loudly proclaiming how much the new Ghostbusters sucked also loudly proclaimed that they had not and never would see it, so I doubt their goodwill and keen insight. Those people are, in fact, bigots.
Note: trimmed a couple points from earlier versions of this post to narrow the focus a bit.
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I don't think Veenkman was going to have sex with Zuul. That's him just being a smart elect. He is kind of that way with everyone. He does have kind of smug ego thing which might not be so charming if it wasn't Bill Murray. Some people can pull that personality off better than others. As for the sex with Ray that was a dream which to me sort of plays into the idea the he, more than anyone is really into being a ghostbuster. He was a true believer in this stuff from the very start. So that can be him sort of thinking of a Succubus or just a sex dream with a ghost since he is really into ghost stuff. For me the only thing that kind of bothers me is just how much everyone smokes in the film. I mean I don't mind smoking is some films but it just feels weird in this movie to me.
Jason
May I suggest you read this, Jason?
http://www.cracked.com/article_25354_uh-venkman-from-ghostbusters-was-probably-sexual-predator.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_25354_uh-venkman-from-ghostbusters-was-probably-sexual-predator.html
That was a interesting article but I think it takes plot details of movies a little to serious. Of course fictional characters are going to often do things that would be creepy to illegal in real life. The rules of real life and fiction often have very little to do with each other. I don't think the subtext is he is a sexual predator just that he is a smug cad type of person. Think about all the casual murder or crime fictional characters we enjoy often do. That's the stuff that builds drama and humor. Conflict and bad behavior with just enough plot logic to buy into it and understand the character. Granted it can be fun to look deeper like this article to make you think but it's not really what the movie is about. Like the drugs mentioned was no doubt written in simply because they needed a means to put her to sleep so magically he just happens to have drugs. Their is lots of weird convient things that always happen in movies and shows simply because it's easier to move the plot along. For example nobody thought to much were the photon backpacks came from or who invented them. Nobody investigates these guys as frauds even though I am not sure everyone would buy into the idea that ghosts are real. Why hasn't the president of the United States not talking to these guys instead of the NY Mayor. This seems like something that would feel like a national event the entire world would be following.
Jason
In reality, it's just things have changed. Stuff like that used to be funny and dismissed as men being men, it hasn't aged well. Although some still find it acceptable.
That's true as well but I still think people have different standards for fictional characters than they do real people. Otherwise movies and tv would become really,really boring very quick. Let's face it. Being nice is often very boring to watch. I think movies and shows much like sports or roller coasters do sort of feed into are more primitive natures and instincts but in a safe way as opposed to going around in real life being a asshole or being violent or wanting to face danger. I think it even helps some. Keeps a cork on humanity and keeping everyone going full primitive.
Jason
Um, no. A comedy about catching ghosts doesn't really need a rape joke.
I don't think their was a rape joke. Now "Revenge of the Nerds" has a rape joke and we all know that scene. Banter though hardly qualifies. I don't see how anyone can think that Veekman would at any point have sex with Zuhl. He can be a asshole but he isn't that kind of awful. He doesn't go around groping people or anything like that. All he does is make smart ass remarks at people.
Jason
Jason
He just happened to have a drug to knock a person out, why would anyone have that? I love the movies and Peter is my favorite character, but it's a creepy bit.
Because he's a doctor?
I agree that it is creepy about the drugs to be honest I had never really thought much about them until just now. I just see it as them trying to move the plot along quickly. I don't think we are suppose to notice the "Hey, why did he bring those drugs with him." He could have of course called someone to bring drugs once he see's her floating or left to go get some but that would have felt like a waste of plot time. I see stuff like this all the time in movies and tv. Like were did Thomas Riker pull that phaser from when he shoots Kira in "Defiant" or how did Sam Beckett always leap into people wearing clothes that happen to fit him. How does he not have a beard when he can't see his reflection to shave.
Jason
On a date?
Also he is able to prescribe medication, but it seems a bit odd that he'd just carry it around. Especially on a date.
The amount of what can - at the absolutely very best - be described as 'sexual impropriety' that's littered throughout the classic pop we all love is astounding. And, of course, a good portion of it is really criminal assault. I mean, go back and pick a movie and watch it with a stern eye. You'll probably find something that doesn't pass the past-woke-test. And I think that is has persisted for so long as such regularity and treated with such frivolity is a big reason why it's still such a problem in culture. I think it's a really good example of how pop culture's influence is much more profound than many people realize.
I think you need to go watch Quantum Leap again.
He's quite the charming sleazebag, isn't he. I think people like him for knowingly skirting the edge of acceptable behaviour with the presumed joking threat that he could cross the line and switch into Mr Hyde mode.
It is a plothole. or continuity mistake. This is when head-canon comes into play. One theory is they take these drugs with them on the job in case they have knock out someone who is possessed and he simply grabbed them out of habit. It's been awhile since I have seen the scene. Is their any cutaway during the scene where he could have went out to his car and grabbed them? Is the scene between Winston and Ray talking about the dead coming back to life while riding in the Ghostbuster vehicle happening around this scene?. Also did they already know about Rick Moranis acting all weird to give any reason to think something fishy might be happening in the building.
Jason
That's not what a plothole is, it seems like you're just trying to create excuses to justify it. A plothole isn't something that doesn't make sense, it's a major flaw in the story where it ruins the movie. This is a common problem.
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