How do ships with no deflector dish get around the problem they're there to solve?

[WraithDukat]

So we all know deflectors are there to deflect small space matter out the path of the ship, otherwise they would receive massive damage from a particle of dust.

If the answer is shields, then surely it's a massive drain in power, also it would be a rocky ride as shield impacts are felt on the ship.

Plus with the amount of other problems they seem to solve by remodulating it not having one would seem to be a massive disadvantage.

 

[Timo]

We don't really know that shields would be a massive power drain. We just know that heroes and villains never raise them until absolutely necessary (and generally too late).

Then again, we don't really know what that big dish does, either, and whether it's a different power drain from the combat shields. We know the "navigational deflector" exists as a thing, and we know the "main deflector dish" exists and is either the big thing at the bow of the secondary hull or then at least some component of it. But if the job is to push debris aside, then won't this job dictate the power consumption? Won't the dish be as much or as little in need of juice when doing its thing as the combat shields?

In any case, navigational deflectors aren't limited to the "main deflector dish". Navigational deflectors can protect our heroes from the feeble lasers of the Capulets and Montagues in "The Outrageous Okona", even though obviously those opponents wouldn't stick to the same side of Picard's ship (as they would never stick to the same side of anything). Projecting that all-surrounding deflector field may not be up to the dish doodad in the end, and a ship with the dish simply has something extra.

Including the ability to use the dish for slicing and dicing, and inverting the polarity of the iso-frammistat, and whatnot. But perhaps not every starship needs those abilities.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

So we all know deflectors are there to deflect small space matter out the path of the ship, otherwise they would receive massive damage from a particle of dust.

I imagine ships without a dish have other ways to generate deflector fields.

 

[Phil123]

It's a brilliant question that they never addressed. I also don't like the idea that the shields do it, because then have them do it on all the ships. Shuttlecraft? What do they do? I imagine in the real world it was a bit of a design hole. The big main ships still have them because it looks like Star Trek, but no one wants to be limited by having to include them on every design, even though they probably should.

But other design "rules" are frequently broken - nacelles in pairs, clear view of each other etc.

Also the original Enterprise had a satellite dish/radio telescope. We can recon it, but no way it was actually intended a defector.

 

[WraithDukat]

It does only seem to be the larger ships that have them, perhaps the smaller ones have technology that can detect hazards and move slightly out the way? The bigger ships couldn't move so fast.

It's a stretch but it does explain it away.

 

[Phil123]

Plus, we have to assume other fleets/empires have totally different technologies. Klingon ships don't have them. In fact I can't think of anyone other than. The Federation who does

 

[Mytran]

The dish is used in any number of different ways on the various show that do not include navigational deflecting. In my mind, it's clearly more of a "swiss army knife" device that ships on the front line benefit from in their space-toolbox simply because their roles are so varied, but is far from essential for every ship in the fleet

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Also the original Enterprise had a satellite dish/radio telescope. We can recon it, but no way it was actually intended a defector.

Stephen E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry's The Making Of Star Trek (originally published 1968, reprinted 1994), pg. 191: "The starship's main sensor-deflector (a parabolic sensor and asteroid-deflector) is located at the front end of the secondary hull."

It was intended as both.

-MMoM

 

[valkyrie013]

Well, maybe non deflector ships have "Navigational Shields" I mean, a speck of dust vs an anti matter torpedo..
Maybe its just a low power, say 5% shield always on, maybe a "Whipple Sheild" in the direction there traveling, and with sensors they just avoid the bigger body's. Plenty of other ways to slice an apple, just that the federation chooses the deflection method on most ships.

 

[WraithDukat]

Spec of dust at high warp could do a lot of damage.

 

[Phil123]

Stephen E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry's The Making Of Star Trek (originally published 1968, reprinted 1994), pg. 191: "The starship's main sensor-deflector (a parabolic sensor and asteroid-deflector) is located at the front end of the secondary hull."

It was intended as both.

-MMoM

haha fair enough. I'm not sure how that in anyway would work, but you could say that about many things.

 

[Phil123]

Spec of dust at high warp could do a lot of damage.

If the ship is essentially travelling with a warp bubble, wouldn't it be protected from dust anyway? If the ship isn't technically travelling faster than light but bending space around it.

Maybe you only need it for impulse.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Rick Sternbach came up with a scheme for how the ships without visible deflector dishes got by, which is briefly described in a section of this Ex Astris Scientia page. The page also notes that most alien ships got by without one as well.

 

[WraithDukat]

If the ship is essentially travelling with a warp bubble, wouldn't it be protected from dust anyway? If the ship isn't technically travelling faster than light but bending space around it.

Maybe you only need it for impulse.

You have a point, but I'm sure Reed said they needed it for Warp on Broken Bow.

 

[uniderth]

If the ship is essentially travelling with a warp bubble, wouldn't it be protected from dust anyway? If the ship isn't technically travelling faster than light but bending space around it.

Maybe you only need it for impulse.

Not only that, but doesn't the warp field essentially submerge the ship into subspace. In a way pushing the ship into a different layer of reality where these dust particle probably don't affect it.

Here are my proposals. If ships in the Star Trek universe fold spacetime then they don't necessarily need inertial dampers becasue the warping effect doesn't cause your ship to move, it's causing spacetime to stretch. Also on this topic, if warp requires inertial dampers, then Zephram Cochrane would have to have that technology first before inventing warp drive. However that presupposes the two warp technologies are the same.

If ships in the Star Trek universe move into subspace layers while at warp, then navigational deflectors are irrelevant as normal matter wouldn't interact with the ship. This would also be irrelevant with an space warp system. I recall reading that with an alcubierre drive dust particles would collect on the surface of the bubble and then be released upon coming out of warp, essentially shotgunning your destination with high energy space debris.

I know there are are few lines from Tom Paris about how inertial dampers are essential for warp. But is there anything that says navigational deflectors are essential?

 

[Markonian]

Rick Sternbach came up with a scheme for how the ships without visible deflector dishes got by, which is briefly described in a section of this Ex Astris Scientia page. The page also notes that most alien ships got by without one as well.

Good idea, but then why would dishes be needed in the first place?

STO suggests that every warp ship has a deflector dish, but it can be hidden under the hood, so to speak. It’s Miranda class has optional visible and covered dish.

 

[Sgt_G]

Klingon ships don't have them.

Actually, they do, right on the front of the boom. Until the movies, that was their deflector dish. It wasn't meant to be a torpedo tube.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Good idea, but then why would dishes be needed in the first place?

STO suggests that every warp ship has a deflector dish, but it can be hidden under the hood, so to speak. It’s Miranda class has optional visible and covered dish.

We can only assume that for Trek techy reasons, the dedicated dish is more practical for some configurations than others. The thing that the Miranda and Constellation have in common, at least, is a relatively compact shape without a secondary hull.

 

[WraithDukat]

Actually, they do, right on the front of the boom. Until the movies, that was their deflector dish. It wasn't meant to be a torpedo tube.

That's shocking if true, it wasn't till the movies that they cared about the tech at all, comparatively so anyway.

 

[Sgt_G]

See the original FASA deck plans:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lca...ttle-cruiser-fasa-15mm-deck-plans-sheet-3.jpg
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lca...ttle-cruiser-fasa-15mm-deck-plans-sheet-7.jpg