Mistakes You Thought Were Made In OS, But Weren't

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Except that they need to know who's talking and they won't know it unless the computer makes a separate announcement.

True dat.

It's a valid point, but I think we just have to reduce it to simple dramatic license. It's just easiest for the viewer at home to see things play out like this. Trying to find a logical way around it would just make the pacing of the scene more awkward.

 

[Discofan]

Languages, for example, are not arranged the same way; In some of them verbs come first and in others, they come last, for example. So it's practically impossible to translate the way the UT does; Sometimes you have to wait till the whole sentence is finished before starting to translate it. Idiomatic expressions can't be translated as such lest they'd be incomprehensible which would defeat the purpose. That means that an accurate translation demands delays, of ten, twenty and sometimes thirty seconds... an eternity when you're waiting to know what the hell the person is saying.

 

[johnnybear]

Zactly, JB. A fundamental flaw in a highly overrated ep.

No, Phase! I wouldn't say that Enterprise Incident was overrated one bit my friend!
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

No, Phase! I wouldn't say that Enterprise Incident was overrated one bit my friend!
JB

Well, me neither, if you rate it really low. REALLY low.

 

[johnnybear]

I'm guessing that you don't like this great episode of TOS?
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

I'm guessing that you don't like this great episode of TOS?
JB

Enh, it's okay. The whole seduction subplot is about half the episode and ultimately makes no sense. Neither does Kirk supposedly flipping out. Much of it reads like a cheap piece of I'm-in-love-with-Spock fanfic.

I think what really gets me about it is that people regularly offer it up as one of the very best of S3, then turn around and diss, say, Wink of an Eye or even something like Cloud Minders. Both are superior for my money.

 

[johnnybear]

I get your drift about Spock and it was probably made at the time that he was the hero of the show much to Shatner's chagrin! We can't all like the same episodes can we though mate! Look at me, I dislike Plato's Stepchildren and I get moaned at all the time!
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

I get your drift about Spock and it was probably made at the time that he was the hero of the show much to Shatner's chagrin! We can't all like the same episodes can we though mate! Look at me, I dislike Plato's Stepchildren and I get moaned at all the time!
JB

LOL, won't argue with your esteemed reputation there! I love everything about Alexander but the torture scenes are just awful to watch.

 

[FormerLurker]

LOL, won't argue with your esteemed reputation there! I love everything about Alexander but the torture scenes are just awful to watch.

Aren't they supposed to be? After all, they're torture.

 

[Phaser Two]

Aren't they supposed to be? After all, they're torture.

Yup. And that reduces my entertainment factor. Go figure!

 

[Shawnster]

Personally, I don't see the point of the Kobayashi Maru test.

Experience fear? Please, you don't experience fear in a video game!! which is basically what it is. I just think the test is useless and that it was meant as a plot point that later for some reason got out of hand and became a meme.

There is a Mythbusters episode where this FAA instructor or something is trying to talk Jamie and Adam through landing a passenger plane (the movie myth where the pilot is incapacitated and an unskilled passenger must land the plane.). The instructor is visibly nervous despite the fact its a simulator or a big video game.

Ask anyone who trains on a simulator if they get nervous. I wonder what they'd say.

Ask anyone taking a big test like the SAT or something if they get nervous. I bet some are, even though it's just a test.

Tell the cadets the Kobayashi Maru is 50%of their grade and will affect not only their graduation but their ship assignments and their promotion possibilities and I bet they get nervous despite it being a video game.

The KM is a psychological test. It's definitely a psychosimulator of sorts.

 

[Discofan]

There is a Mythbusters episode where this FAA instructor or something is trying to talk Jamie and Adam through landing a passenger plane (the movie myth where the pilot is incapacitated and an unskilled passenger must land the plane.). The instructor is visibly nervous despite the fact its a simulator or a big video game.

Ask anyone who trains on a simulator if they get nervous. I wonder what they'd say.

Ask anyone taking a big test like the SAT or something if they get nervous. I bet some are, even though it's just a test.

Tell the cadets the Kobayashi Maru is 50%of their grade and will affect not only their graduation but their ship assignments and their promotion possibilities and I bet they get nervous despite it being a video game.

The KM is a psychological test. It's definitely a psychosimulator of sorts.

I disagree. He wasn't, obviously, talking of the kind of fear you're referring to. He said that the purpose of the test is to experience fear. When I used to take say a math test the teacher didn't tell us that the goal of the test was to experience fear. You're confusing fear of flunking a test with fear being the PURPOSE of the test, which this obviously is. Besides Kirk took the test three times!!! What surprises are left even when you take it a second time? The version of TWOK where you see all the senior staff faking their deaths melodramatically is especially ridiculous. Are we supposed to believe that these people did that for as many cadets there are in the academy or is Saavik being for some (mysterious) reason especially honored there? Seriously, I really appreciate TWOK and I think it's the best ST movie so far, but NOT because of that scene! In fact, that scene is even a depreciating element and doesn't make much sense.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I disagree. He wasn't, obviously, talking of the kind of fear you're referring to. He said that the purpose of the test is to experience fear. When I used to take say a math test the teacher didn't tell us that the goal of the test was to experience fear. You're confusing fear of flunking a test with fear being the PURPOSE of the test, which this obviously is. Besides Kirk took the test three times!!! What surprises are left even when you take it a second time? The version of TWOK where you see all the senior staff faking their deaths melodramatically is especially ridiculous. Are we supposed to believe that these people did that for as many cadets there are in the academy or is Saavik being for some (mysterious) reason especially honored there? Seriously, I really appreciate TWOK and I think it's the best ST movie so far, but NOT because of that scene! In fact, that scene is even a depreciating element and doesn't make much sense.

I've always assumed the test is different each time. Only the name of the ship remains the same.
Not everyone takes the test. Spock didn't.

 

[Discofan]

I've always assumed the test is different each time. Only the name of the ship remains the same.
Not everyone takes the test. Spock didn't.

I don't see how much variety they can put in that test:

-You get a call for help from inside the neutral zone, you go there to rescue the callers, you get surrounded and overwhelmed by ships that don't give a hoot about your explanations and fire on you until you're dead. That's it! You're there!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't see how much variety they can put in that test:

-You get a call for help from inside the neutral zone, you go there to rescue the callers, you get surrounded and overwhelmed by ships that don't give a hoot about your explanations and fire on you until you're dead. That's it! You're there!

As I said, only the name of the ship is the same. The situation it finds it's self in is what varies.

 

[Mytran]

As I said, only the name of the ship is the same. The situation it finds it's self in is what varies.

Agree 100%
If there were only 1 version of the KM test, academy gossip would render it pointless in no time flat

 

[Discofan]

As I said, only the name of the ship is the same. The situation it finds it's self in is what varies.

The precise situation it finds itself in, doesn't even matter since you can't even get to the ship in question. You try to lend assistance and you're intercepted by an implacable enemy that destroys you. How much variety can you put in that?
I don't see why you keep dodging the question?

 

[Mytran]

I could be mistaken but I think Nerys_Myk is suggesting entirely different mission simulations, but ones that just happen to feature the KM in one way or another

 

[Nerys Myk]

The precise situation it finds itself in, doesn't even matter since you can't even get to the ship in question. You try to lend assistance and you're intercepted by an implacable enemy that destroys you. How much variety can you put in that?
I don't see why you keep dodging the question?

Not dodging at all. Again, the only constant is a ship called the Kobayashi Maru. Everything else is different each time.

 

[Discofan]

Not dodging at all. Again, the only constant is a ship called the Kobayashi Maru. Everything else is different each time.

Nothing in the movies allows you to come to that conclusion. The fact that Kirk took the test three times and was able to cheat the third time is precisely because the test is pretty much the same each time. Everything said between the characters confirms the idea that the test is pretty much the same each time.

Plus, in the two examples of the test presented, the one with Saavik and the one in the alt-reality with Kirk, the test is exactly the SAME. It's really bizarre of the writers if they were trying to convince us that the test is different each time, to present us with two almost identical instances of it!!!

Your conclusion is not supported by evidence.