A Fresh Look and Hindsight

[Lance]

^Season 3 was a transitional season for the series; Rick Berman was gaining more and more control but Gene still guided the stories and had say in the production(such as giving his approval for the new uniforms), Michael Piller had become the head writer but there were several veterans from the first two seasons on staff(Biemler and Manning, Melinda Snodgrass), and Wesley was still a regular character. Season 3 is the last season where a handful of the episodes end on the bridge, as The Enterprise warps onto the next mission. I always missed that in later shows.

I loved that aspect of seasons 1-3, that every mission was just "today's mission" and once it was done we move onto the next one Nowadays they'd actually link them together, I feel, but back then it made the Enterprise's journey feel expansive and important.

Good point about Wesley, too. Like him or loathe him (I like him), he's gone very soon into S4 and his absence from week to week draws a clear line in the sand between the feel of 1-3, and the feel of the following seasons.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Currently on Yesterday's Enterprise (S3 E15). What an awesome AWESOME episode! It was always a favorite but I kind of forgot just how good it was. I haven't given a list much thought but this would definitely be a "Top 5." Seeing Tasha Yar again was emotional and Denise Crosby was a much stronger actress this time around - then again her character was forged in war this time around.

Would have been further along in my binging of TNG however Netflix recently added the latest season of "Death In Paradise" (S7). Good times. Good times.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Since I can view them readily on Netflix, I've been watching them more. DS9 has remained my favorite, yet I find that TNG's episodic format lends itself better to casual rewatching than DS9.

I too am a lover of DS9. To be honest, the more others seemed to complain it wasn't Star Trek the more they seemed to be doing things I loved. I thought Section-31 was a great way to retcon and compensate for some of the sillier developments [my opinion] of TNG. I've always each new Star Trek should have to justify itself. That would be done by stretching and challenging our notions and prejudices of what it is. DS9 is the only spinoff I've seen that really does that from start to finish. Sadly, it paid a terrible price for its boldness. Berman dissed it at every opportunity … but that is a rant for another folder!

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Good point about Wesley, too. Like him or loathe him (I like him), he's gone very soon into S4 and his absence from week to week draws a clear line in the sand between the feel of 1-3, and the feel of the following seasons.

My thoughts on Wesley have changed a bit. I'm more sympathetic to him now. I still believe they misused him early and sort of provoked the negative reactions to his character. Wesley should not have been uber-boy genius. He should have been written as the audiences avatar into the 24th century. Make him bright. Let him contribute in small but crucial ways, but they over did it in nauseating fashion. Unfortunately, you only get one season to make a good first impression.

I also think they could have done better y Mirina Sirtis/Troi, but I'll pontificate on that another time.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

As a birthday treat to myself, I too started my VERY slow rewatch of TNG. I'm only halfway through the first season. I'm struck by McFadden's acting so far, she just seems to drift into and out of her scenes with little emotion or presence. It's rough on one hand but then just shows how far I think she came later on. Tasha Yar, though, I'm liking her much more than I used to.
I also feel that the style, despite how many decades apart, is much too close to the 60's way of doing Trek (I did my rewach of TOS earlier in the year) and season 3 can't come soon enough to progress things past that. Or, at least, halfway through season 2.

Since I can view them readily on Netflix, I've been watching them more. DS9 has remained my favorite, yet I find that TNG's episodic format lends itself better to casual rewatching than DS9.

I find this for all shows in general. Give me a good TNG episode or Twilight Zone any day, I rarely revisit something with an ongoing story.

I thought Section-31 was a great way to retcon and compensate for some of the sillier developments [my opinion] of TNG.

To me, Section 31 worked fine for DS9, but I find later series (Enterprise, movies, etc) use it as a crutch because it's easier to write about darkness than the light TNG rightfully held high.

 

[LJones41]

I've been rewatching TNG for quite some time. My feelings for it has not changed. I still like it.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I find episodic versus serial has little effect on rewatchability, EXCEPT when the show is so dark and thick it’s emotionally exhausting. Like Westworld or NuBSG. Not an issue for me with DS9. Bigger issue is how much I overwatched TNG in high school and college.

 

[Armus]

^I would agree with that. Both DS9 and TNG are highly rewatchable for me. Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica was so riveting originally but now that I know how it ends, I have little interest in seeing it again.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I've been rewatching TNG for quite some time. My feelings for it has not changed. I still like it.

I wasn't expecting folks so much as to change their overall opinion of whether they liked TNG or not. More along the lines of choosing to share any instances of change in one's opinion on an issue, story or element as they matured over the years.

An example:

I just finished the S3/E16 episode "The Offspring." When I first saw it I was a young, unmarried man with no children. The issues and dilemma raised were more an abstract intellectual exercise. Now I just revisited it as a man long married and a son. I was far more sympathetic to the humanity of the story this time around. I become much more emotionally engaged and sympathetic to the dilemmas raised. The ending had more of an impact on me.

 

[Lance]

I find episodic versus serial has little effect on rewatchability, EXCEPT when the show is so dark and thick it’s emotionally exhausting. Like Westworld or NuBSG. Not an issue for me with DS9. Bigger issue is how much I overwatched TNG in high school and college.

I used to think serialized was better -- this back in 2001, ish, when it just felt like having ongoing plots that grow and develop over a season made a story feel epic compared to confining it to a single episode or two parts -- but I had a turn around more recently when I rediscovered episodic TV and found myself thinking how slow burning some of those serial plots feel, how much running on the spot is required to not give things away too soon, whereas episodic television gives you instant gratification and doesn't require the commitment to try and remember intricate story details and how they connect to one another.

That being said, I feel like TNG, at least, and probaby VOY too, gets unfairly tarnished by the 'reset button' criticism. TNG had an inclination towards episodic TV, but it didn't have a reset button. Storylines were deliberately left open (eg. the Worf/Klingon arc) to be picked up later. TNG has some fantastic story arcs running through its run, the fact that not all of them were in consecutive episodes like a serialized TV show didn't lessen the impact at all, in fact in hindsight it probably enhanced them because it made it feel like these massive plot developments were happening off screen while the Enterprise was busy with trival Planet Of The Weeks. The universe felt expanded by that, it made the show feel epic in scope without beating us over the head with it.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I don't think there's much argument to be made that Voyager didn't suffer from significant bouts of reset button-itis.

They were in the delta quadrant, completely cut off from the Federation and all Federation resources.

How many battles did they get in? How often was the ship half-destroyed? How many shuttles were lost or stolen? And yet the ship was almost always good as new and for all their talk of rationing, they never really ran out of anything except occasionally needing to replenish food stores and the like.

See also, Harry Kim who saved the ship a dozen times and never, ever earned a promotion. Or Seven of Nine who at one point was practically the de facto first officer because Janeway trusted her more than anyone, yet she remained forever separated from the rest of the crew instead of actually being integrated like the Maquis were.

 

[Lance]

@grendelsbayne I will agree with that, with the caveat that Voyager's reset-button-itis started some way into the run... there are a lot of episodes in the first four seasons and particularly the first two and a half where they did respect the setup, did make efforts to develop the characters (and keep that development), and it did have a general feeling of momentum that carried from episode to episode.

It certainly became the USS Reset Button during it's run though, I'll grant that

 

[Terok Nor]

The only thing about the first two seasons I've changed my mind on is Pulaski. I used to hate her but upon my last rewatch I ended up liking her more than Crusher!

I regret the loss of the wonderful music from Season 1-2 in the later seasons. It made everything feel more Star Trekky.

The only unwatchable episode for me is The Outrageous Okona. Both storylines from that episode are abysmal. I doubt I'd willingly watch Shades Of Gray again but at least it's a clip show.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think long arcs are good, I think episodic television is good, they just both need good writing. Some of the most rewatchable shows for me are thinks like Lost and Breaking Bad that were really serialized but have enough comic relief to break up the dramatic tension.

The problem with Voyager ignoring consequences is that the premise of the show inherently implies more consequences. Not that you'd see the same aliens again, more that the damage or resource cost of one episode should carry over into the next. They didn't even keep a count of surviving crew members.

Knowing that when they lose something it's gone should have made them be much, much more careful in their choice of actions. It didn't ruin the good episodes, but it affected the show's credibility. I'm not saying Voyager should have had longer arcs, just that it should have given more than lipservice to the premise of being stranded and alone.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Just finished S3E20, "Tin Man," and boy did it make me miss Farscape!

This episodes only big flaw was that the ending was telegraphed since almost the beginning which could make one feel a little impatient. Otherwise an excellent story with the Tam Elbrun character (Harry Groener) being both well written and played. A rare chapter that used Troi well and Data brilliantly.

Surprised I didn't have strong memory of this one originally, but really loved it on this viewing.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

To me, Section 31 worked fine for DS9, but I find later series (Enterprise, movies, etc) use it as a crutch because it's easier to write about darkness than the light TNG rightfully held high.

To quote the TOS episode, The Way To Eden, "We reach." Section-31 was perfect for DS9 because they made and used for a specific purpose while, since it was an element Berman really hated, every opportunity was taken outside of DS9 to undercut and diminish it.

On a BIGGER rant (where I may lose you), my biggest complaint regarding Berman was his (and Paramount's) constant restrictions on what Star Trek could or couldn't be. Even Roddenberry didn't seem to realize the true potential of his franchise. Star Trek, unlike any other creation, could be used to tell any type of story. It could tell an epic or something more intimate. It could be about extremes or shades of gray. I really think only the minds of DS9 got close to realizing that.

 

[Qonundrum]

I think long arcs are good, I think episodic television is good, they just both need good writing. Some of the most rewatchable shows for me are thinks like Lost and Breaking Bad that were really serialized but have enough comic relief to break up the dramatic tension.

The problem with Voyager ignoring consequences is that the premise of the show inherently implies more consequences. Not that you'd see the same aliens again, more that the damage or resource cost of one episode should carry over into the next. They didn't even keep a count of surviving crew members.

Knowing that when they lose something it's gone should have made them be much, much more careful in their choice of actions. It didn't ruin the good episodes, but it affected the show's credibility. I'm not saying Voyager should have had longer arcs, just that it should have given more than lipservice to the premise of being stranded and alone.

Yeah, it's weird that they show later episodes featuring a fake Janeway and others that loot and plunder, suggesting the ship and crew are known...

Unfortunately, the first thing that comes to mind is this:

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Man, that piece never gets old...

They set up direct continuity spoken at the start but are then quick to torpedo it... (sorry)

 

[Lance]

Which episode was it where they're stuck in some kind of dark void with a bunch of other ships who're all fighting for survival, and Voyager has to face the reality of dealing with pirates, uncooperative enemies, and being stuck alone in an unfriendly part of space, and they have to adapt to changing conditions, upholding Federation values, while learning how to stretch those morales where necessary to survive?

Voyager being Voyager, it was all dealt with in 48 minutes minus commercials, but realistically, that episode was the series format in microcosm. That should've been the whole series.

They set up direct continuity spoken at the start but are then quick to torpedo it...

Rewatching the first season, it's surprising to see how much episode-to-episode continuity there is, at least as much as DS9.

Somewhere around two thirds of the way through they start parring back on that continuity, and the show suffers as a result.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Just finished S4E3 "Brothers."

S3E26/S4E1 "Best of Both Worlds I&II" was, of course, excellent. I was a big fan of the TV series "Dallas" (1978). The "Who Shot JR?" and "Best of Both Worlds" cliffhangers are probably the two best in TV history (my opinion). Both made their respective summer hiatuses painful with anticipation. Even now I couldn't wait for Netflix's autoplay and manually hit went to BoBW, Part II.

S4E2 "Family," never saw it before. This episode was my white whale. Never seemed to catch it in rerun and didn't want to just jump to for fear of it lacking the proper context without watching BoBW immediately prior. FINALLY! I enjoyed the Picard family reunion a lot. The Worf family reunion not so much. Picard's was complex and therefore felt very real (if not too brief). Worf's, in my opinion, felt contrived. With the Picard's you could see two rational viewpoints while Worf just came across as somewhat of an ass. Yes, that may have been the point, but his parents still left the ship feeling that somehow they were at fault.

S4E3 "Brothers", absolutely brilliant. I hadn't seen it since its original airing. This is another episode where I feel my youth prevented me from fully appreciating it. Spiner's performance in this episode was incredible. Perhaps his best of the series. You felt Data's Joy. Lore's pain. Soon's sorrow. All three with such different personalities. I stand and clap and yell "Bravo, Mr. Spiner, BRAVO!"

Editorial comment: if Nemesis had been written with Lore as the main villain leading a band of Romulans rather than force an idiotic Picard/Romulan connection that film would have been factors of ten times better! When a real span of history is involved it brings a magical level of gravitas. Ironically, a gravitas they unsuccessfully tried to manufacture when they had an organic alternative all along. IDIOTS!

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Just passed Birthright, Part I & II (S6 E16 & 17). So far the most striking thing to me is the noticeable drop in writing quality. I haven't reacquainted myself with the production credits so I don't know what changed between seasons five and six, but something did. Still feel "Relics" was an atrocious episode and did the character of Montgomery Scott as well as James Doohan the actor a great disservice - they don't even take him to a starbase to get reacclimated they just shove him in a shuttlecraft and out into space ... REALLY?!?! I will say I enjoyed "Rascals" (S6 E7) more this time around. Ro was a really good character. I liked how she went from a cliché to something more substantial and dimensional.