Donny's TOS Enterprise Interiors

[blssdwlf]

Are you referring to this art? Flight deck art.

If you are, the cutaway shows no habitable space on the center-line where the dome is and no cylinder below the dome. Is there another Jefferies' graphic that you were thinking about?

What was intended to go back there is quite literally debating in a vacuum until someone models a hangar that will fit in an exterior at the scale that was indicated on Jefferies’ art and then examines the space around that hangar for accessibility to the aft dome and cylinder.

 

[David cgc]

Some renders I'm seeing have windows on the reverse of that operations hub facing inward into the hangar. Unfortunately the one shot we get of that side of the hangar, that part is blocked by an incoming workbee.

There's the pre-final version of the painting, with all the shuttles. It's too small to make out, but you can at least see something at the top of the shuttlebay doors.

We've all seen countless discussions (including in this thread) asking about whether these or those dimensions for the TOS shuttlebay would allow space for the nacelle struts to enter the engineering fuselage, on the seemingly reasonable assumption that those struts would have to be extend inside the ship and be anchored there in some way for the sake of stability. But in the one large-scale view we get of that space — this one, albeit admittedly of the refit version rather than the original — there's no sign whatsoever of the struts entering the interior space. On the evidence, it would seem we can and should assume that 23rd century materials and fabrication technology are advanced enough to keep those things stable without any internal attachment.

The struts on the refit are further forward, remember. They hit the hull above the shuttle elevators. We can't see the ceiling at that point in either shot, but there's supposed to be another deck above them, which is where whatever structure is anchoring the pylons would be.

 

[lawman]

Fair point about the top dorsal deck. Still, my impression of that drawing is that it allows space for the warp core ductwork to run back along the spine and up to the nacelles, but not so much for the struts to really extend into the fuselage. I'll grant there's room for interpretation, though.

 

[aridas sofia]

Are you referring to this art? Flight deck art.

If you are, the cutaway shows no habitable space on the center-line where the dome is and no cylinder below the dome. Is there another Jefferies' graphic that you were thinking about?

Both of Jefferies’ cross sections give the intended size of the hangar. The TOS ship cross section appeared in TMoST. It gives a size but no detail. The Phase II cross section supplies the missing details for the same size space.

My point was merely that you can’t know what the intended function of those spaces was unless you compare his hangar against his exterior and see if there is any room for access of any kind. When I did this in two dimensions I thought there might be, but I was unsure so I made the dome a sensor and had the cylinder house the aft tractor emitter.

None of this really applies to what Donny is doing so perhaps it should be discussed elsewhere.

 

[Tallguy]

I'm sorry to have to ask this... But do the Phase II drawing and the Making of Star Trek drawings match in proportion and scale? Or are we just talking about the cross sections and not the shuttle deck plan?

The shuttle deck was added after the show started, but also rather early. So did MJ consider it a mistake? Or did he object to the size of the deck either publicly (in the offices) or privately?

 

[aridas sofia]

There was no need to object to the size of the hangar deck. What is pictured in TMoST was a drawing for a purposely distorted model to be built to fit a camera through its front. It possibly was also distorted to give it an enhanced sense of scale.

The space shown on the Phase II cross section is the same space shown on the TMoST cross section. Remember, that ship was a much less extensive refit and the aft of the secondary hull was left largely untouched.

 

[Maurice]

Andy told me the red windows above the hangar doors and the two looking into the hangar deck on the matte painting were supposed to be flight control room, which would be lit red to make it easier to see the ships outside. You can see two small human figures in there in this cutaway, one seated, one standing. Yes, you'd have to basically crawl in there.

 

[uniderth]

Andy told me the red windows above the hangar doors and the two looking into the hangar deck on the matte painting were supposed to be flight control room, which would be lit red to make it easier to see the ships outside. You can see two small human figures in there in this cutaway, one seated, one standing. Yes, you'd have to basically crawl in there.

Maybe its a zero-g section and you can just "float" up in there instead of crawling.

 

[Tomalak]

Couldn't be one of those one-person mini-lifts (also seen in engineering) at the front of the hanger bay, either side of the hanger doors? Or just a ladder? It's not much of an inconvenience if it doesn't routinely need to be manned.

How many times would you really need to look out of a window to see approaching shuttles anyway? Feels like it would only be useful for a manual landing or for some kind of observation. Maybe it's actually a phaser room for the turrets above the hanger bay?

 

[BK613]

well, in Probert's unused matte painting, there is a silver-gray spine running down the center of the ceiling coffer that could be interpreted as an enclosed catwalk. In the film, you can see this spine above and behind the front of the cargo bee in the painting that was used. That would give you a walkable surface at the same floor height as the control room.

 

[Donny]

Woah! I for some reason didn't get notifications for any of the above comments. Ha. I don't have much to add to the discussion regarding whether or not that space is easily accessible (or accessible at all, for that matter) on either the TOS Enterprise or the Refit, however the Refit definitely has the advantage of having the deck above the flight deck.

I haven't modeled out the cylindrical structure above the hangar doors on my internal hangar set yet, but will be doing so when I get to refining the clamshell doors. Over the weekend I focused on refining and texturing the internals of the flight deck itself and did some preliminary lighting work. Still have to refine/texture the large structure in the middle of the ceiling (which I will be modeling as a tractor beam emplacement, much like what is depicted in FJ's work), the pocket alcoves, the floor, and the clamshell doors. Once those are completed, I will move on modeling the spaces in between the pocket alcoves (unseen on camera) which will most likely contain ladder-ways into the control booths/observation deck. I will also investigate whether or not a control room actually can exist up there above the doors at the scale I've modeled the flight deck (to scale to the filmining miniature of the flight deck, which is the same size as depicted in the MJ illustrations of the flight deck in TMoST), although I'm pretty doubtful, and there's still the issue of how to access that area anyway. I mainly want to investigate to satisfy the curiosity of myself and those on this forum

As far as the "Elevators" and "Warning Fire" text that are in the alcoves, I will most likely be changing this text to say other things, since we never see this text on-screen and only on behind-the-scenes images of the model.

After the flight deck is completed, I'll move on to the hangar deck which is theoretically below the flight deck, and whatever cargo complex I come up with will be located just forward of the entire flight deck/hangar deck complex.

Anyway, here's a shot of where things stand currently. Lighting is currently WIP and wonky in places (I've never lit an area this big before in Unreal!). Textures appear pretty smooth, but when you get up close and the light hits just right, you can see imperfections and some light dirt/scratches. You'll also noticed that I kept the exterior of the observation deck/control booth windows as opaque emissive panels (like they were in the show). My thought is that they're emissive/opaque on the outside, but non-emissive/transparent on the inside. Some 23rd century tech we're not familiar with in the 21st century One of the other reasons I've made kept them opaque from the flight deck is because I will have to hide the observation deck geometry whenever the exterior of the ship is being rendered because there's no way to fit the interior of the observation deck as it appears on-screen into the exterior hull of the ship, even at 1080'.

 

[lawman]

there's no way to fit the interior of the observation deck as it appears on-screen into the exterior hull of the ship, even at 1080'.

Really? That's disappointing.

 

[Sibyl]

I've got a serious lack of notifications the last couple of days, too.

Reading along, don't have much to say at the moment...

 

[Tallguy]

Nice.

You touched on a point that I've added to my design philosophy in the last few years. What can I get away with that wouldn't have shown up on screen? When they made the bridge for In a Mirror, Darkly they decided the buttons needed more detail, so they put lettering on them. Then lo and behold, the lettering didn't show up even in HD. So as far as I'm concerned they might be all kinds of detail we just can't see on film, let alone on a 14" 1966 TV set. That gives us lots of room to play.

Of course you're taking kind of the backwards approach, removing detail that was there but still couldn't be seen. Also good.

 

[feek61]

Looks good Donny. Can you post a photo without the shuttlecraft? It kind of looks weird with no shadow or reflection under it, lol. Really, I would just like to see the hangar bay.

 

[Donny]

Looks good Donny. Can you post a photo without the shuttlecraft? It kind of looks weird with no shadow or reflection under it, lol. Really, I would just like to see the hangar bay.

Yeah, lighting is a big WIP which is why there’s not a shadow under the shuttle currently. I wasn’t even going to show this pic today since it’s in such a rough state, but decided to show it because I’ve learned in the past it’s best to show incremental progress here because people will notice things or give feedback on things I overlooked that are harder to change later on in the pipeline. I’ll post some more shots (with and without the shuttle) as I get more work done.

 

[Donny]

. So as far as I'm concerned they might be all kinds of detail we just can't see on film, let alone on a 14" 1966 TV set. That gives us lots of room to play.

I did this with the “vents” of the upper ceiling beams of the flight deck. On the filming miniature, those “vents” where just rectangles of darker color, but for my build I added some corrugated lines to sell the idea that they’re are actual vents. Again, the super-fuzzy nature of the source on-screen photography is allowing me to follow through on what would seem to be the original intent.

 

[Maurice]

...As far as the "Elevators" and "Warning Fire" text that are in the alcoves, I will most likely be changing this text to say other things, since we never see this text on-screen and only on behind-the-scenes images of the model.

DID we ever see what these say? I know the 3G renders of the hangar include them (and I was thrown by them because they were scanned from a magazine), but the text isn't readable in any of the photos I have of the miniature proper.

 

[aridas sofia]

“FIRE” probably refers to that fuel station but “ELEVATORS” might refer to the turntable. Or it might be saying there are lifts back in those alcoves for smaller craft.

 

[Donny]

DID we ever see what these say? I know the 3G renders of the hangar include them (and I was thrown by them because they were scanned from a magazine), but the text isn't readable in any of the photos I have of the miniature proper.

I can't find anything in my references of the original filming model that shows the text as legible. Anyone out there got an image showing the legible text in the alcoves that is not a CG render?

“FIRE” probably refers to that fuel station but “ELEVATORS” might refer to the turntable. Or it might be saying there are lifts back in those alcoves for smaller craft.

In the unseen space just behind the fueling station, accessible by the alcoves on either side, I am planning to have some fuel pump machinery there, as well as a ladder up to the control booth above it. WARNING FIRE would further make sense there because of this. And if I can employ a small one-man lift system up to the control booths instead of ladders, that would give logic to the ELEVATORS signs. But ladders themselves are so much more TOS than the one-man lifts we saw in TMP onward. I could go either way. Hmmm....what to do? what to do?