Re: TNG
To paraphrase Worf "If it had been any other show, It would have been killed right there"
To paraphrase Worf "If it had been any other show, It would have been killed right there"
Comparing TNG's first season to Discovery's first season
- Thread starter Admiral Archer
- Start date
For me, the first season of Discovery is probably the most disappointing in Trek. With the Spore Drive, they had the universe at their fingertips, they could have gone anywhere and done anything. Instead they were more interested in regurgitating the past. Neither the Klingon war nor the Mirror Universe really needed it.
I find it bland and uninspired.
I find it bland and uninspired.
Oh, and by the way, this is NOT an invitation to bash either Discovery or TNG's first season. We're here to compare notes between two different generation's takes on their respective brand new shows. Let's keep it civil, shall we?
You might as well be saying "What does everyone think about political parties, now this isn't an invitation to bash either one, let's keep it civil."
I didn't see season one until I was watching repeats in syndication between seasons six and seven. I remember liking it back then but coming to conclusion pretty fast later seasons were better. When I watch season one, excluding the obvious major stinkers I enjoy it. They hadn't hit their stride but they had a clear idea and clear vision, just hadn't figured out how to tell great stories with it yet.
I liked Discovery season one and I think it has major potential for improvement but I think the first season didn't have a consistent enough vision to really go back to.
I do, however like Discovery's first season much more than Voyager's and Enterprise's. And I think DS9's first season is better now, but I like Discovery more now than I liked DS9 when it aired. Whatever its flaws are, it's the first post-TNG Trek whose first season wasn't trying to be TNG-lite.
Best first seasons in order: TOS, STD, TAS, ENT, VOY, DS9, TNG
Season 1 and 2 of TNG are not great, and this was recognized even back then. It did go on to become the best star trek show of them all Imo, starting with BOBW.
Discovery so far even it's best episodes are to me, nowhere NEAR the quality of TNG at it's best.
That being said, I also dont think S1 of discovery had a bad episode in it. It was consistently "pretty good".
When we consider trek has thrown out stuff the quality of threshold, code of honour, move along home, tuvix, etc etc etc, i think Discovery is doing just fine.
Also Discovery is the first ever star trek that my mum likes, so theres something about it which appeals to the pure casual which is in it's favour.
Discovery so far even it's best episodes are to me, nowhere NEAR the quality of TNG at it's best.
That being said, I also dont think S1 of discovery had a bad episode in it. It was consistently "pretty good".
When we consider trek has thrown out stuff the quality of threshold, code of honour, move along home, tuvix, etc etc etc, i think Discovery is doing just fine.
Also Discovery is the first ever star trek that my mum likes, so theres something about it which appeals to the pure casual which is in it's favour.
Part of the charm of many first seasons is that everyone is trying find what works and what doesn't. Writers experiment with the characters and with types of stories. TNG's and DS9's first seasons are fun to watch because they feel so different from where they ended up.
The first season of TNG was very much in the style of TOS, or how the producers visualized TOS would be in the 80s! Then it found it's own way in the thick of things and became it's own show! DS9 and VOY both followed suit borrowing from TNGs style and then morphing into a regular style which suited them both! ENT came in and arrogantly speculated it would last for seven years, which it didn't and tried to use the TNG style while imitating the TOS era which didn't really work for everybody! DSC I have no idea what they are trying to do with the series so I'll leave it at that!
JB
JB
TNG had major problems in its first seasons, including a handful of extremely painful episodes which would never have been made (Troi In Love, Wesley Almost Gets Executed, African Tribal Planet, Tasha Dies [For The First Time], Data Has An Evil Twin) just to name a few, which would not have been needed if seasons were less than 22 episodes.
There were some standouts, Conspiracy and the Big Goodbye, and a bunch of mediocres.
For DSC, I found two episodes to be -annoying-, and maybe two more that just made no sense (chief of security getting herself Darwined). Once you've established the existence of the Spore Drive and its weird technobabble, its not so bad, the technological restraints are fairly consistent.
What I *don't* like is early in the season when Burnham takes the blame for the war, nor do I like that the klingons speak klingon - it should be mostly accented english, with klingon only used to establish that the show is really translating and they don't actually speak english. Waay too much Klingon subplot.
I find the characters to be generally more believable than on TNG (or Voyager).
There were some standouts, Conspiracy and the Big Goodbye, and a bunch of mediocres.
For DSC, I found two episodes to be -annoying-, and maybe two more that just made no sense (chief of security getting herself Darwined). Once you've established the existence of the Spore Drive and its weird technobabble, its not so bad, the technological restraints are fairly consistent.
What I *don't* like is early in the season when Burnham takes the blame for the war, nor do I like that the klingons speak klingon - it should be mostly accented english, with klingon only used to establish that the show is really translating and they don't actually speak english. Waay too much Klingon subplot.
I find the characters to be generally more believable than on TNG (or Voyager).
1 TOS
2 DS9
3 DSC
4 ENT
5 TAS
6 VOY
7 TNG
2 DS9
3 DSC
4 ENT
5 TAS
6 VOY
7 TNG
Replace DS9 with Enterprise, and I'm right there with you.
It's not fair to compare DSC, so far, to anything of STAR TREK: The Next Generation ... 1st Season, or otherwise. Nothing comes even close. Still in all, Discovery has not been a bitter disappointment. There continue to be aspects about it that I do not care for, like ... at all ... but it's what's moving STAR TREK forward on the small screen and its future looks bright. Were I to grade DSC's first season, just in terms of being entertaining, I'd give it a "C." And if Sir Patrick Stewart helms an All New TNG, I promise you, DSC will still rank above it, for me. TNG, as we know it, is just about as brilliant as television gets. Any new spin on it is only going to cheapen the franchise. At least DSC is trying to be its own thing ...
Well, I wasn't alive when TNG first aired (I was born in 1990) but just comparing them now, TNG wins by a mile. I liked maybe 2 episodes of DSC (episodes 2 and 3) and in comparison I like at least a handful of TNG Season 1 episodes pretty well (Encounter at Farpoint, Where No One Has Gone Before, The Battle, Hide and Q, Datalore, The Arsenal of Freedom, Conspiracy)
Ranking all first Seasons:
1. TOS
2. DS9
3. TNG
4. Voyager
5. Enterprise
6. Discovery
To be fair, I haven't finished DSC Season 1, but its certainly not going to raise above last place based off the MU episodes.
Ranking all first Seasons:
1. TOS
2. DS9
3. TNG
4. Voyager
5. Enterprise
6. Discovery
To be fair, I haven't finished DSC Season 1, but its certainly not going to raise above last place based off the MU episodes.
1. TOS
2. DS9
3. TNG
4. DSC
5. VOY
100000: ENT
Season 1 of Enterprise was a repeating pattern of: ...Maybe this episode will be better! ...okay, that was maybe slightly less awful... I have faith. I have faith. I have faith. I have faith. I have faith....UGH PRIME DIRECTIVE APOCALYPSE! No no no no no...I have faith. I have faith. I have faith....AHHHHH DOG PEE DIPLOMATIC CRISIS! NOOOOO!!! ...No, this is Star Trek. If Enterprise is bad then Star Trek will be over and Star Trek can't be over, therefore Enterprise isn't bad. I have faith. I have faith. .....f a i t h....
Discovery I can at the very least say "That is pretty good and and show has promise" and not be painfully deceiving myself.
2. DS9
3. TNG
4. DSC
5. VOY
100000: ENT
Season 1 of Enterprise was a repeating pattern of: ...Maybe this episode will be better! ...okay, that was maybe slightly less awful... I have faith. I have faith. I have faith. I have faith. I have faith....UGH PRIME DIRECTIVE APOCALYPSE! No no no no no...I have faith. I have faith. I have faith....AHHHHH DOG PEE DIPLOMATIC CRISIS! NOOOOO!!! ...No, this is Star Trek. If Enterprise is bad then Star Trek will be over and Star Trek can't be over, therefore Enterprise isn't bad. I have faith. I have faith. .....f a i t h....
Discovery I can at the very least say "That is pretty good and and show has promise" and not be painfully deceiving myself.
I'm somewhat hesitant to say how I rated the first seasons, but let the chips fall where they may. I'm almost pretty sure a lot of people think I've lost my mind since Discovery was announced.
This is what I got when I averaged all the episodes in each season, which I rated on a 10-scale.
DSC Season 1... 8.43
TOS Season 1... 8.27
VOY Season 1... 7.50
DS9 Season 1... 7.15
TNG Season 1... 6.23
(ENT Season 1... Not Rated)
Have at it. Tell me I'm nuts.
This is what I got when I averaged all the episodes in each season, which I rated on a 10-scale.
DSC Season 1... 8.43
TOS Season 1... 8.27
VOY Season 1... 7.50
DS9 Season 1... 7.15
TNG Season 1... 6.23
(ENT Season 1... Not Rated)
Have at it. Tell me I'm nuts.
Last edited:
I'll be honest. I watched TNG the first season because it was the only game in town and had "Star Trek" in the title, but thought it suffered badly in comparison to TOS. It wasn't until Season 2 or so that it started to get consistently good.
By comparison, DISCO seems to have gotten off to a stronger start.
By comparison, DISCO seems to have gotten off to a stronger start.
I really love Conspiracy, The Arsenal Of Freedom, Heart Of Glory, Where No One Has Gone Before, Encounter At Farpoint, The Big Goodbye and 11001001 from TNG's first season. By comparison I didn't really love any episodes of Discovery Season One but I'd probably rewatch the one where Mudd kills everyone over and over. Discovery had some moments and characters I liked but the storylines haven't gripped me.
Personally I think DS9 had the best first season of the spin offs. It knew what is was from the get go and laid out the path the series would follow for the first few seasons with little hassle. Captive Pursuit and Duet are two of my favourite Trek episodes.
Personally I think DS9 had the best first season of the spin offs. It knew what is was from the get go and laid out the path the series would follow for the first few seasons with little hassle. Captive Pursuit and Duet are two of my favourite Trek episodes.
I have rated TNG S1 episodes and DSC S1 episodes based on my own opinion (first rating) and included the www.jammersreviews.com rating (to provide objective balance- second rating). Each rating is a "4-star system" and appears as a fraction.
Farpoint: 3/4 2/4
Naked Now: 2/4 2.5/4
Code of Honor: 0/4 0.5/4
Last Outpost: 2.5/4 2/4
WNOHGB: 3.5/4 2.5/4
Lonely Among Us: 1/4 2/4
Justice: 1/4 1/4
The Battle: 2/4 2.5/4
Hide and Q: 3/4 3/4
Haven: 1.5/4 2.5/4
Big Goodbye: 2.5/4 2/4
Datalore: 0.5/4 3/4
Angel One: 0.5/4 1/4
11001001: 4/4 4/4
Too Short Season : 2/4 1.5/4
Bough Breaks: 1.5/4 1/4
Home Soil: 2/4 3/4
Coming of Age: 2.5/4 2.5/4
Heart of Glory: 3.5/4 3/4
Arsenal of Freedom: 2.5/4 3/4
Symbiosis: 1/4 2/4
Skin of Evil: 2/4 1.5/4
Always Have Paris: 3/4 2/4
Conspiracy: 4/4 3.5/4
Neutral Zone 0.5/4 1.5/4
Vulcan Hello: 3/4 3/4
BOTBS: 2/4 3/4
Context: 3.5/4 3/4
Butchers Knife: 3/3 2.5/4
Choose Pain: 2.5/4 2.5/4
Lethe: 3.5/4 2.5/4
Magic: 3/4 3/4
Si Vis Pacem: 1.5/4 2/4
Into the Forrest: 4/4 3.5/4
Despite Yourself: 3.5/4 3/4
Wolf Inside: 3/4 3/4
Vaulting Ambition: 3/4 3/4
Past Is Prologue: 3.5/4 2.5/4
War Within: 2/4 2.5/4
Take My Hand: 2/4 2/4
Vger23's S1 Aggregated Ratings:
TNG: 2.06/4 DSC: 2.86/4
www.jammersreviews.com Aggregated Ratings
TNG: 2.2/4 DSC: 2.73/4
Farpoint: 3/4 2/4
Naked Now: 2/4 2.5/4
Code of Honor: 0/4 0.5/4
Last Outpost: 2.5/4 2/4
WNOHGB: 3.5/4 2.5/4
Lonely Among Us: 1/4 2/4
Justice: 1/4 1/4
The Battle: 2/4 2.5/4
Hide and Q: 3/4 3/4
Haven: 1.5/4 2.5/4
Big Goodbye: 2.5/4 2/4
Datalore: 0.5/4 3/4
Angel One: 0.5/4 1/4
11001001: 4/4 4/4
Too Short Season : 2/4 1.5/4
Bough Breaks: 1.5/4 1/4
Home Soil: 2/4 3/4
Coming of Age: 2.5/4 2.5/4
Heart of Glory: 3.5/4 3/4
Arsenal of Freedom: 2.5/4 3/4
Symbiosis: 1/4 2/4
Skin of Evil: 2/4 1.5/4
Always Have Paris: 3/4 2/4
Conspiracy: 4/4 3.5/4
Neutral Zone 0.5/4 1.5/4
Vulcan Hello: 3/4 3/4
BOTBS: 2/4 3/4
Context: 3.5/4 3/4
Butchers Knife: 3/3 2.5/4
Choose Pain: 2.5/4 2.5/4
Lethe: 3.5/4 2.5/4
Magic: 3/4 3/4
Si Vis Pacem: 1.5/4 2/4
Into the Forrest: 4/4 3.5/4
Despite Yourself: 3.5/4 3/4
Wolf Inside: 3/4 3/4
Vaulting Ambition: 3/4 3/4
Past Is Prologue: 3.5/4 2.5/4
War Within: 2/4 2.5/4
Take My Hand: 2/4 2/4
Vger23's S1 Aggregated Ratings:
TNG: 2.06/4 DSC: 2.86/4
www.jammersreviews.com Aggregated Ratings
TNG: 2.2/4 DSC: 2.73/4
Last edited:
The world is also vastly different now than in 1988. A much darker humanity right now, and tv is full of shows that reflect that darkness.
Which is precisely why I think this is an unfair contest. Honestly, comparing TNG season with THE ORVILLE is a better fit. There is a sense of wonder, excitement, and exploration that is absent, in spirit, in DISCOVERY.
Maybe DISCOVERY will get that spirit going forward. I think we have to wait a few more seasons to not only see where they are going, but for the series to really LIVE with us for a while.
Being an internet only series, with no dvd sets or anything yet, doesn't really help it with me.
Back when TNG first aired aired, I saw every episode AND their repeat airing. I have seen each episode of DISCOVERY only once, and haven't really felt the urge to rewatch... life being more busy and the fact I hate this being an internet only series being some reasons why. If that were a gauge, I would have to say TNG wins this contest, at the moment.
Which is precisely why I think this is an unfair contest. Honestly, comparing TNG season with THE ORVILLE is a better fit. There is a sense of wonder, excitement, and exploration that is absent, in spirit, in DISCOVERY.
Maybe DISCOVERY will get that spirit going forward. I think we have to wait a few more seasons to not only see where they are going, but for the series to really LIVE with us for a while.
Being an internet only series, with no dvd sets or anything yet, doesn't really help it with me.
Back when TNG first aired aired, I saw every episode AND their repeat airing. I have seen each episode of DISCOVERY only once, and haven't really felt the urge to rewatch... life being more busy and the fact I hate this being an internet only series being some reasons why. If that were a gauge, I would have to say TNG wins this contest, at the moment.
Similar threads
