Spoilers Star Wars: Solo - Grading and Discussion Thread

[Reverend]

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And this proves what exactly? That the film evolved during the editing phase? That's true of most movies like this. Scenes get deleted, reshoots are sometimes required, endings are changed, subplots dropped, scenes are re-ordered and sometimes the context of an entire third act can be entirely altered because the plot is becoming too complex. Hell, 'Men in Black' did that last one with just one line of ADR and a VFX shot!

Did his editors have vital creative input into the movie? Of course they did, that's what he hired them for and the fact he fired the first guy (who's previous work shows he was by no means incompetent) should be enough to prove that Lucas wasn't just blindly depending on an editor to fix it for him. Editing a movie is very time consuming, painstaking work, especially in the pre-digital days and requires an editor to go over and over and over hours of footage to find the best takes, find the right coverage to use, when to cut-away and when to linger. They have to go over the entire movie front to back and back to front to find where things aren't working--something that's often impossible to determine until you have the footage all cut together--and address it. That's what the editing phase is for. Very few directors have the time and energy to do this all by themselves and none for a film this complex, much less one they're also writing, part financing and executive producing all while establishing several companies to get it all done, including developing technology and techniques that simply didn't exist until they built it!

Lucas needed collaborators at every level of the production. He needed a conceptual artist so he hired Ralph McQuarrie, he needed a score so he hired John Williams. Does the fact that he didn't build a single set with his own hands, sew any costume, or conduct a single piece of music make Star Wars any less "his"? Of course not.

Also, as noted, this was a difficult shoot on a low budget sci-fi movie that nobody thought would be worth anything, with several key members of production being actively obstructive, adding stress and strife to an already overworked director. The only reason it didn't fail a thousand times over is because Lucas was the driving force of the whole thing.

No George Lucas: no Star Wars. Period.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And this proves what exactly?

That the editors of Star Wars saved George Lucas's ass in post, the factual component of @Serveaux's claim.

Pointing out that films are collaborative and that George Lucas collaborated wasn't really in question. Nor, I believe, was it really in question that there was more to that story or that he was the prime mover of the whole shebang. It's always nice to see the facts laid out, though.

 

[Reverend]

That the editors of Star Wars saved George Lucas's ass in post, the factual component of @Serveaux's claim.

Pointing out that films are collaborative and that George Lucas collaborated wasn't really in question. Nor, I believe, was it really in question that there was more to that story or that he was the prime mover of the whole shebang. It's always nice to see the facts laid out, though.

You mean the editors he hired to help him edit his film did in fact, help him edit his film? Well in that case I stand corrected. Clearly old George would have been lost without the charity of those kind souls!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You mean the editors he hired to help him edit his film did in fact, help him edit his film? Well in that case I stand corrected. Clearly old George would have been lost without the charity of those kind souls!

That's ridiculous. The thesis is that actual work they turned in was essential to the success of the film. It's called giving credit where credit is due. Or, perhaps, not.

 

[Campe]

A lot of movies are made in the editing bay, sure, but to dismiss or even minimize the contributions the editors on Star Wars made is just ludicrous. They saved that movie! And won an Oscar for their work!

 

[Reverend]

I don't think anyone is denying the essential--hell, damn near heroic contribution of the three editors. Nor the essential contributions of just about everyone else who worked on the film in one capacity or another. For example, had Alec Guinness turned Lucas down like Mifune did, then quite possibly the film would not have worked as well as it did. Just as if John Williams or Ralph McQuarrie been unavailable or if Alan Ladd Jr. hadn't gone to bat for Lucas with Fox.

The point is, this is often presented with the implication, or outright proclamation that George Lucas was a talentless hack who stumbled into success because he had *really good editors*. Aside from that being asinine on the face of it; that's not how artistic collaborations work. There's always a creative driving force at the centre of it all, who conceives of the whole thing in the first place, who invites those contributions, shapes them, directs them and uses them to construct a cohesive whole.

I think what some seem to misunderstand about the re-edit is that it was Lucas who was unhappy with the initial cut because the bloke he initially hired didn't know how to handle his strange, documentary style shooting. That wasn't Lucas's cut that they "fixed". Indeed he had very little to do with it, as is was mostly done from dailies while he was still busy shooting. The re-edit was a complete redo done at Lucas's behest, this time with editors who knew his style better, could work closer to his vision and yes, could offer insight and expertise of their own, like any other good editor.

 

[Campe]

There is no doubt in my mind that GL is an intelligent man with fascinating ideas. He surrounded himself with some of the best, as you suggest. Most of them have made him what he is today. I'm not saying he's not talented. Far from it. But I am suggesting that his work was raised up by some talented (perhaps in some cases, even MORE talented) individuals.

 

[Reverend]

There is no doubt in my mind that GL is an intelligent man with fascinating ideas. He surrounded himself with some of the best, as you suggest. Most of them have made him what he is today. I'm not saying he's not talented. Far from it. But I am suggesting that his work was raised up by some talented (perhaps in some cases, even MORE talented) individuals.

I do believe this is what they call "damning with faint praise".

Look, as already stated: the beginning, middle and end of all this is that without Lucas, Star Wars doesn't ever exist. All those talented people would have been off doing other projects, though none of which would have had the impact and longevity of Star Wars. They didn't buoy him up, he buoyed them. Gave them the opportunity to work on something that would change most of their careers forever and have a seismic impact on the movie industry as a whole.

 

[fireproof78]

That the editors of Star Wars saved George Lucas's ass in post, the factual component of @Serveaux's claim.

Pointing out that films are collaborative and that George Lucas collaborated wasn't really in question. Nor, I believe, was it really in question that there was more to that story or that he was the prime mover of the whole shebang. It's always nice to see the facts laid out, though.

This really is coming across as very all or nothing type thinking. Yes, no Lucas no Star Wars. But, it is not taking away from the other individuals or Lucas' legacy by pointing out who did what.

 

[JD]

Editors still need to have decent material to work with, and that material comes from the director. Editing can only do so much with bad writing, acting, or directing.

 

[USS Fardell]

Solo A Star Wars Story
The Second 'Star Wars Story' Anthology film in the Star Wars movie series (Galaxy Far Far Away Cinematic Universe?), about how Han Solo met Chewbacca and did the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs. It certainly succeeds at that. The introduction on Corellia was rather good, depicting the environment in which he grew up in rather effectively. (I can see some influence from Dickens in the writing, mainly Oliver Twist.) This also shows the link between him and Qi'ra that influences the future chapters (given that the film's structure is rather episodic).
Meeting Beckett on Mimban (in a conflict clearly inspired by WWI) was done rather well, as was Han's meeting with Chewbacca. It is easy to see why the Wookiee would stay with Han for the rest of his life. The Train Job was rather well done. Again, I can see influences from various Westerns (same as in some episodes of Firefly). The introduction to the Marauders and to Dryden Vos were similarly well done. (Parts of the scenes on the Yacht were a little unsettling, but they set the tone for what would come later well.)
The Kessell Run and what leads up to it, was also done rather well. (Especially the introduction to Lando Calrissian and the Millennium Falcon. Donald Glover nails it as much as Billy Dee Williams.) L3-37 is also an awesome character. The complication that she adds to the mission to Kessell adds another winkle to the complicated movie, but that makes it more enjoyable. A later scene involving her is rather moving and gives an answer as to why Han (and Lando) is very sentimental about the Falcon.
The conclusion is rather good as well. 8.75/10.


Star Wars Rankings

ESB
TFA
TLJ
ANH
RoTJ
Solo
Rogue One
RoTS
AoTC
TPM

 

[CorporalCaptain]

This really is coming across as very all or nothing type thinking. Yes, no Lucas no Star Wars. But, it is not taking away from the other individuals or Lucas' legacy by pointing out who did what.

I agree. Except who was coming across as having all or nothing type thinking?

 

[fireproof78]

I agree. Except who was coming across as having all or nothing type thinking?

Just the back and forth regarding the editors and their contribution.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Just the back and forth regarding the editors and their contribution.

That's not an answer to the question. Anyway, moving on....

 

[fireproof78]

That's not an answer to the question. Anyway, moving on....

It was the general feel of the dialog, not any one person. "It's all Lucas contribution!" No, it's all the editing!" That kind of black and white discussion.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It was the general feel of the dialog, not any one person. "It's all Lucas contribution!" No, it's all the editing!" That kind of black and white discussion.

That's not what I saw.

If that's what you saw....

 

[fireproof78]

That's not what I saw.

If that's what you saw....

That was just my impression. I could be wrong. It just read like all or nothing in the back and forth.

 

[crookeddy]

Han Solo is a Mary Sue?

 

[1001001]

We finally saw it yesterday.

I really enjoyed it. More than I thought I would, given all the negative reactions.

The action sequences were awesome (the train, the gravity well). I thought both Han and Lando were well done. We get a little twist/fanwank at the end.

I give a B+. Not as good as Rogue One, but certainly better than I had been led to believe.

 

[Trekkin]

Is it odd that I was pretty unenthused by it, but would still say it’s a pretty solid ‘B’?

Also, just realised the C-F grades up the top there don’t have +/-. The system is rigged!