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'The City on the Edge of Forever'....51 years ago today

I don't know if this is a repeat, or not, but here's Bill Shatner & Joan Collins, one-on-one discussing City on the Edge of Forever:

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Interesting video. When Shatner's by himself, we get the quiet, thoughtful Shatner you sometimes see these days. When Collins enters, he turns on the leading man charm and gets flirty with her.

Also nice to see that Collins apparently re-familiarized herself with the episode before doing an interview about it. At one point in the 90s, she was saying that Edith was "in love with Adolph Hitler." Oy!
 
I like this. I don't think about City enough and have in fact never thought about the fact that McCoy would still be around. In fact, come to think of it, that’s a huge problem for the whole episode, isn't it? He would realize soon enough that he wasn't trapped in a delusion and would also soon realize that his friend Edith, who saved him and whom he saved in turn from the car accident, was altering history in a negative way. Wouldn't he try to stop her?
You really need to read David R. George III's Crucible: McCoy Provenance of Shadows.

The other two books in the Crucible Trilogy are good, too, but that one is a masterpiece.
 
You really need to read David R. George III's Crucible: McCoy Provenance of Shadows.

The other two books in the Crucible Trilogy are good, too, but that one is a masterpiece.

Okay - thanks, JQ! I am just about to finish a book and need something new. My post was already too long above and I was short on time while typing it, but I thought about adding that even though I don't think about City enough, surely other people have. And someone must have addressed the issue that I (finally, lol) identified/stumbled upon. I take it the work you mentioned does just that?
 
You really need to read David R. George III's Crucible: McCoy Provenance of Shadows.

The other two books in the Crucible Trilogy are good, too, but that one is a masterpiece.

Great book. I found the story of McCoy's 'other' life fascinating. It was something I wondered myself, what was McCoy's life in that other timeline? Who did he meet, how did he live his life, what did he do when he realized he had somehow changed history, and what happened in that other history? I almost wished the story went further in that other timeline. I'd be interested in how WWII ultimately played out in that other timeline.
 
Okay - thanks, JQ! I am just about to finish a book and need something new. My post was already too long above and I was short on time while typing it, but I thought about adding that even though I don't think about City enough, surely other people have. And someone must have addressed the issue that I (finally, lol) identified/stumbled upon. I take it the work you mentioned does just that?
It does, but if I say any more I'm afraid I might spoil it for you. Best to discover it on your own. :)
 
It does, but if I say any more I'm afraid I might spoil it for you. Best to discover it on your own. :)

Okay - thanks! I get it; it was part of a trilogy or three-part anthology, perhaps the latter might be the better term, with one story each about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

RIP Harlan

:weep: Very sad. I was always firmly in the camp of the showrunners regarding the City writing debates, based on the available information. But I wasn't there, and even if we all knew the real story, that's one tiny matter in a rich, full and generous life. He was a titan of science fiction and will be very much missed. RIP.
 
RIP Harlan

What a kick in the gut that is today. I can hardly even express what I feel.

Can't seem to stop posting this image, in multiple threads. Ellison Wonderland. :(

EllisonWonderland.jpg
 
I've read some of the staff rewrites of "City" and they largely did the script no favors. There's a point at which there are attempts made to keep the best parts of Ellison's version but at the point the Genes come in all that flies out the window and we get corny humor and Edith's corny on-the-nose speech.

Ellison's script needed work, yes. But the staff wasn't up to the challenge, and they ripped the soul out of the script in the process.

RIP to the irascible bastard.
 
I'd read Ellison's original scripts for "City," but I've never read the intermediate versions. That would be interesting.

It's really a shame that they didn't keep Trooper.
 
I've read some of the staff rewrites of "City" and they largely did the script no favors. There's a point at which there are attempts made to keep the best parts of Ellison's version but at the point the Genes come in all that flies out the window and we get corny humor and Edith's corny on-the-nose speech.

Ellison's script needed work, yes. But the staff wasn't up to the challenge, and they ripped the soul out of the script in the process.

RIP to the irascible bastard.

COTEOF was brilliant.
Maybe not as potentially brilliant as Ellison's script in an ideal worldwould suggest but to say it was corny...

Anyway Ellison had many more brilliant works that he could be proud of as his legacy. No matter what happened I think a Star Trek script could never be just Ellison's work especially the way Ellson thought and GR's vision for his Star Trek,
 
COTEOF was brilliant.
Maybe not as potentially brilliant as Ellison's script in an ideal worldwould suggest but to say it was corny...

Show me on the Gene dolls where I said the aired episode was corny. I said the Genes added corny humor and a corny speech by Edith.

Or just read what I actually wrote. :D
 
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Show me on the Gene dolls where I said the aired episode was corny. I said the Genes adde corny humor and a corny speech by Edith.

Or just read what I actually wrote. :D

Yeh you said the episode had corny humour and a corny speech. You know - corny! ;) :)

I don't know which jokes the Genes added, or which Ellison put in. Didn't Fontana put her 2 cents worth in too? I know you know but I'm just assuming you meant all the humour. I thought the humour was good in the episode, Better than most.
 
I've read some of the staff rewrites of "City" and they largely did the script no favors. There's a point at which there are attempts made to keep the best parts of Ellison's version but at the point the Genes come in all that flies out the window and we get corny humor and Edith's corny on-the-nose speech.

Ellison's script needed work, yes. But the staff wasn't up to the challenge, and they ripped the soul out of the script in the process.

RIP to the irascible bastard.

I read the IDW graphic novel but I'm not sure how faithful that was to the original script. I'd be interested to see the evolution to the final draft too.

I would have loved to see an actual city in the episode but I rather like the Guardian in preference to the humanoid aliens in the comic. It adds to the air of mystery. I also think that a criminal crewman or just a criminal / troubled character (they do visit a Psychiatric colony in Dagger of the Mind) who finds redemption with Edith might have been a more powerful message. This would only have required minor tweaks.

At what point was Grace written out of the script? I know he was fond of her (they dated for a while afterwards) so part of his anger about changes might have been to do with that, especially if he thought that anybody pushing for the changes might have been involved with the assault or her firing.

Rand was written as an action heroine in the comic. I wondered to what extent he had intended that in the sixties and if so, why Uhura, who took on the Rand role, was relegated to saying she was afraid. Dreadful if they took an empowered female role and deliberately neutered it!

Edit: Just browsed his original script. It would have made a fine episode in its own right with minimal tweaks. Rand did still get to help defeat space pirates, jury rig the transporter, and command a security team, so Uhura's role sucks by comparison. Still , you can see plenty of other tweaks for him to be annoyed about.

Ha ha just looked at one of the early rewrites bringing in McCoy and excising Rand. All Yeoman not-Rand does is scream and run off to fetch the men. Reminds me of Yeoman Mears whose only job is to switch on the tricorder and Spock doesn't even trust her to do that.
 
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McCoy would have helped her rise to national prominence because he wouldn't know that she would delay the U.S.'s entry into WWII.
 
McCoy would have helped her rise to national prominence because he wouldn't know that she would delay the U.S.'s entry into WWII.
It's a valid point. Did she really need to die? How much of her achievements were due to a man out of time?

Of course taking her to the future was another option but also an unethical one..
 
I also think that a criminal crewman or just a criminal / troubled character (they do visit a Psychiatric colony in Dagger of the Mind) who finds redemption with Edith might have been a more powerful message.

That sent my thoughts on a path of extracting 'City' from its actual place in the run of episodes, bumping everything up one spot, and inserting 'City' between 'Whom Gods Destroy' and 'Let That Be Your Last Battlefield'....with content closer to Harlan's original story. :vulcan:

The Beckwith angle somehow always reminds me of the drug in the movie 'Harley Davidson and The Marlboro Man'...."you put it in your eyes and it tells you lies."
 
McCoy would have helped her rise to national prominence because he wouldn't know that she would delay the U.S.'s entry into WWII.

Hmmmmmmmmm. Could be. I guess he would have no idea of how he was lost in time, no memory of the Guardian, etc. because he was still in a Cordrazine-induced state on the Guardian’s planet. But he knew who he was and retained his memories of the Enterprise . . . dunno. Seems as though he would realize what was happening, but perhaps he would instead get caught up in Edith's peace movement, or gradually lose his sense of reality and blend in unobtrusively, in no position to stop world events.

And it just hit me why City is outside my personal Top 10. It's the ease with which McCoy gets off the ship, upon which the entire rest of the plot depends. There are of course all sorts of implausible Enterprise security breaches throughout TOS, but that one just puts up a roadblock for me I can't get past.
 
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