Proxima Centauri in 25 years

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Where will they currently end up though? Will they keep flying through nothingness?

I don't know why they don't do a Voyager style probe now, and send it in that direction. It would be less costly then a manned mission somewhere wouldn't it?

Dude, it would take several tens of thousands of years to get to Proxima at the speeds Voyagers 1 and 2 and Pioneer 10 are going. It's about 40 trillion kilometres away, Voyager 1 is travelling at 17 km/s and there are about 31.56 million seconds in a year. The journey would take about 75 thousand years. Space is big, really big etc...

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Dude, it would take several tens of thousands of years to get to Proxima at the speeds Voyagers 1 and 2 and Pioneer 10 are going. It's about 40 trillion kilometres away, Voyager 1 is travelling at 17 km/s and there are about 31.56 million seconds in a year. The journey would take about 75 thousand years. Space is big, really big etc...

Which is why Star Trek V always makes me smile. That Klingon Captain shooting Pioneer X for target practice must have parked practically on our solar system‘s front lawn for that.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Which is why Star Trek V always makes me smile. That Klingon Captain shooting Pioneer X for target practice must have parked practically on our solar system‘s front lawn for that.

Oh ok haha didn't think of that watching that movie. It wouldn't have travelled far at all, and Earth could have detected the Klingon ships had they been looking.

What is more funny about that scene is the sound effect the probe makes when shot.

 

[XCV330]

Some problems
https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2018/06/18/marc-millis-on-mach-effect-thruster-emdrive-tests/
These observations do not bode well for the EmDrive’s claims of real thrust, but it is too early to firmly dismiss the possibilities.

This keeps up--and it'll join the spin-dizzy in the circular file.

Still undertain why Woodward and Fearn's mach effect drive was put into the same test as the EM drive by Tajmar et al at Dresden, but Woodward has issued a fairly lengthy response yesterday. I have the ppt but cant link it here.

To summarize, Tajmar was loaned a MEGAdrive thruster by Woodward with specific instructions on how to use it. Tajmar's team fried it (the piezo crystals were not driven properly), had it on a test rig designed for a much bulkier device and did not have it set up properly.

Woodward further shows from their own test rig when the unit was returned, it showed signs of thermal damage, but was tested and still showed a small sign of thrust but not as much as before. I cant say anything about the emdrive tests, as I am not remotely convinced the emdrive works, but the Mach affect thrusters seem to have been tested sloppily as an afterthought.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Still undertain why Woodward and Fearn's mach effect drive was put into the same test as the EM drive by Tajmar et al at Dresden, but Woodward has issued a fairly lengthy response yesterday. I have the ppt but cant link it here.

To summarize, Tajmar was loaned a MEGAdrive thruster by Woodward with specific instructions on how to use it. Tajmar's team fried it (the piezo crystals were not driven properly), had it on a test rig designed for a much bulkier device and did not have it set up properly.

Woodward further shows from their own test rig when the unit was returned, it showed signs of thermal damage, but was tested and still showed a small sign of thrust but not as much as before. I cant say anything about the emdrive tests, as I am not remotely convinced the emdrive works, but the Mach affect thrusters seem to have been tested sloppily as an afterthought.

So they were loaned a drive and managed to fry it?

I wonder what it's owner thought.

 

[XCV330]

So they were loaned a drive and managed to fry it?

I wonder what it's owner thought.

"Last February Martin Tajmar requested a Mach effect thruster from us at CSUF (a MET or MEGA drive) to test in his lab at TU Dresden. He had tested a device that I (JW) gave him 18 years ago, and he wanted something more up to date. Whle we did not know the details of Martin’s lab at Dresden, we knew him to be a careful experimenter and gifted at getting the latest, best equipment for his lab. Indeed, from his Sevilla conference paper, and the following slides, it is easy to see that our assumptions regarding his lab were justified."

and later

"Having known Martin for years, we decided to LOAN him the device we had been using in our lab as a “demonstrator” for a couple of years. The device was shipped to him, along with some associated hardware – especially, a stepup/isolation transformer for the power circuit – so that he and his students could test it. He was to return the device and hardware in a month or two. It showed up in early June."

"Running without the transformer had led them to run at the wrong frequency. But this aside, those in the popular and semi-popular press latched onto his ambiguous low power results and took them to be grounds for claiming that Mach effects had been falsified. Most of the press attention was lavished on the EM drive for there is no plausible physics to explain its operation should real thrust actually be generated in it. Mach effects were collateral damage. So the question is: what would Martin and students have seen if they had run the device at the correct frequency with a voltage amplitude two to two and a half times the 75 volts they used?"

and later
"The condition of the demo device when returned was different from that when sent. It had obviously been subjected to a thermal event. The power circuit was falling off the device and its insulation had been singed. The epoxy encapsulation of the PZT stack showed discoloration characteristic of thermal shock. The power wiring was reattached. To my surprise, the device, when tested, worked. Not as well as before sent. But well enough to warrant serious refurbishment."

all quotes from Professor Woodward. I could infer form subtext but I will refrain.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Arthur C. Clark had the opinion that probes like the Voyagers would eventually get picked up by us and brought back to a museum. He felt that they go so slow and that human technology was starting to progress so fast, that there was no point letting them journey at slow speed when so much faster speeds are available. I'm not saying I agree with him, but it is an interesting viewpoint. I think they will let them go because that's what the original intention was.

This is one reason that it is premature to send something now. The realistic speeds we can get (0.4 will not really be possible now) are too slow and the round trip time too long. Better to wait until "faster" and "cheaper" is developed.

But, I'm glad to see these proposals being made. It means that we are getting closer and that the ideas might actually be taken seriously. I also would love to live long enough to see interstellar travel happen.

The planet detection technology is getting better and better and predictions say that in the next decade it might be possible to detect oxygen levels in planet atmospheres. Detection of an Earth-like planet with significant oxygen, within 50 light years would provide a very strong motivation to send a probe. Despite the long time to wait, the payoff of finding new life or another habitable planet is a mother lode that can't be ignored.

 

[XCV330]

This is one reason that it is premature to send something now. The realistic speeds we can get (0.4 will not really be possible now) are too slow and the round trip time too long. Better to wait until "faster" and "cheaper" is developed.

Travelling at relativistic speeds, either from something like Mach Effect, laser-guided sail, or nuclear pulse means that eventually the people aboard the ship are experiencing significant time dilatation effects. Useless to those who get left behind, but important if you're just trying so seed new worlds with Earth life and you don't have the means to build generation ship.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Travelling at relativistic speeds, either from something like Mach Effect, laser-guided sail, or nuclear pulse means that eventually the people aboard the ship are experiencing significant time dilatation effects. Useless to those who get left behind, but important if you're just trying so seed new worlds with Earth life and you don't have the means to build generation ship.

Yes. This is true and would be very useful if we find another habitable planet. We could in fact colonize. One needs to get very close to light speed for individuals to actually make the trip and survive without multigenerations. The technical obstacles for speeds that fast are really daunting. People often talk about the technology needed to make the ship go fast, but forget about induced cosmic rays that would kill people. Still, there does not appear to be any problem that might not be solvable in time. The most I hope for in my lifetime is seeing a robot ship make it to another star and send information back. I don't say the odds are high, but I hope for it.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Where will they currently end up though? Will they keep flying through nothingness?

I don't know why they don't do a Voyager style probe now, and send it in that direction. It would be less costly then a manned mission somewhere wouldn't it?

According to:
https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/frequently-asked-questions/

Pioneer 10 is headed towards the constellation of Taurus (The Bull). It will take Pioneer over 2 million years to pass by one of the stars in the constellation.

Pioneer 11 is headed toward the constellation of Aquila (The Eagle), Northwest of the constellation of Sagittarius. Pioneer 11 may pass near one of the stars in the constellation in about 4 million years.

Voyager 1 is escaping the solar system at a speed of about 3.5 AU per year, 35 degrees out of the ecliptic plane to the north, in the general direction of the Solar Apex (the direction of the Sun's motion relative to nearby stars). Voyager 1 will leave the solar system aiming toward the constellation Ophiuchus. In the year 40,272 AD, Voyager 1 will come within 1.7 light years of an obscure star in the constellation Ursa Minor (the Little Bear or Little Dipper) called AC+79 3888.

Voyager 2 is also escaping the solar system at a speed of about 3.1 AU per year, 48 degrees out of the ecliptic plane to the south toward the constellations of Sagitarrius and Pavo. In about 40,000 years, Voyager 2 will come within about 1.7 light years of a star called Ross 248, a small star in the constellation of Andromeda.

To view the constellations including their RA and DEC, go to http://www.heavens-above.com/constellation.aspx and select from the list.

To get a graphical view and data on where the four spacecraft are and how fast they are traveling, go to http://www.heavens-above.com/SolarEscape.aspx

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

OK I ended up watching the Star Trek movie mentioned earlier and that scene where Pioneer 10 is shot out of the sky by Klingons. Poor thing. They even added sad sound effects

 

[ThankQ]

The Voyager sattelite(s) really should've been sent to Proxima Centauri, instead of the inky void of nothingness ...

They were sent to study the gas giants. That's what determined their direction. There are no u-turns in space.

 

[2takesfrakes]

They were sent to study the gas giants. That's what determined their direction. There are no u-turns in space.

... What a bite in the crotch area!!

OK I ended up watching the Star Trek movie mentioned earlier and that scene where Pioneer 10 is shot out of the sky by Klingons. Poor thing. They even added sad sound effects

Oh, yes. I never cared for that scene, myself. Tis though (in STAR TREK land) every satellite NASA's ever sent out that didn't crash somewhere is full of sentient awareness and bursting with life, just because V'GER happened to be. Just as God just so happens to be chillin' on a planet that -- one day -- NASA will be able to fly to ...

 

[ThankQ]

Which is why Star Trek V always makes me smile. That Klingon Captain shooting Pioneer X for target practice must have parked practically on our solar system‘s front lawn for that.

THANK GOD someone else recognized that. It's been bothering me for 30 years.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Yeah, and if a Klingon was really that close to our solar system, he would probably use blast cannons to write graffiti on the surface of the moon Charon. Something like, "Earthlings Suck Oort Cloud Gases", for everyone to see in their telescopes.

 

[StarCruiser]

Are you trying to say that "Klingons are around Uranus"?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Are you trying to say that "Klingons are around Uranus"?

I should not have laughed but I did.

Poor Uranus has such an unfortunate name.

 

[2takesfrakes]

What IS its CORRECT pronunciation? Does anybody know? Is it "Urine-us" or "your-Anus"? Or is it something quite astonishingly different?

 

[Steven P Bastien]

I've heard both, but I seem to remember Isaac Asimov mentioning that Urine-us is the correct way, although he was in favor of adopting "O-ran-us" or something like that. He wrote an essay about it and found some scholarly justification for that pronunciation. I'll try to find the essay later and correct any mistake, which is likely. You can see that both pronunciations are distasteful and Asimov felt that this planet received less attention because nobody wanted to say the name.

 

[Kor]

"Uranus" shouldn't start with a "Y" sound. It's a simple matter of looking at the Latin and Greek etymology.

Kor