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Last Classic Who Story you watched

I like to believe the War Chief was the Master, but the Monk can't be. For one thing, the Monk isn't evil and sadistic like the Master; he thinks he's doing good by using his technology to help people in the past and artificially accelerate their progress, while the Doctor insists it's too reckless to try tampering with history.
I can explain that as character development. The Monk was very much just out to change history but then the Doctor stole his [technobable] so he couldn't control his TARDIS. As a result he got captured by the War Lords and forced to help them. His change in nature was largely about him beginning to hate the Doctor because it was his fault he was put in that position.

And yeah you have to ignore the line about the Monk being 50 years in the Doctor's future for it to work, but I've never had a problem ignoring bits I don't like ;)

At least that works for me. :)
 
I can explain that as character development. The Monk was very much just out to change history but then the Doctor stole his [technobable] so he couldn't control his TARDIS. As a result he got captured by the War Lords and forced to help them. His change in nature was largely about him beginning to hate the Doctor because it was his fault he was put in that position.

And yeah you have to ignore the line about the Monk being 50 years in the Doctor's future for it to work, but I've never had a problem ignoring bits I don't like ;)

I think if you have to force things that much to make them fit, that's telling you it's better not to bother. The War Chief makes sense as the Master, because they're equally sinister and they both have a personal history with the Doctor back on Gallifrey. But treating the Monk and the Master as the same person is like treating Cyrano Jones as the same person as Colonel Green, or treating Mr. Mxyzptlk as an earlier incarnation of Darkseid. They're totally different flavors of villainy, the comical nuisance and the ultimate evil.

And yeah, sure, the Monk was motivated by vengeance against the Doctor in "The Daleks' Masterplan," but his idea of vengeance was to strand the Doctor like he'd been stranded, not to kill him, and he didn't have any particular animosity toward anyone except the Doctor. So there's no reason that petty grudge against one person would turn him into a psychopathic megalomaniac who took joy in causing death and suffering on a vast scale.

I understand the appeal of wanting to fill in the missing history of the Doctor/Master rivalry, but it's too small-universe to conflate too many of the Doctor's Time Lord antagonists into the same person. After all, pre-Time War, there were quite a lot of Time Lords. And it's a bit contrived how many of the renegade Time Lords traveling the galaxy are from the same generation and all knew each other back in the day -- the Doctor, the War Chief, the Master, K'anpo, Drax, the Rani, the Corsair, etc. It's kind of nice to have one Time Lord who's not from the same weirdly timeless generation as all the others. It's a bizarre conceit of the later years of the series that all Time Lords are always in sync with each other no matter where they roam in past or future. Gallifrey is supposed to be a civilization of immense age and ancientness, yet its history seems to be confined to a single generation.
 
Yeah I'm totally okay with the War Chief and the Master being the same person. His MO is basically the same - find a group of patsies he can offer his services to ostensibly for their benefit but really for his own, deploy a ludicrously overcomplicated plot to cause lots of lovely chaos, death and mayhem, get a bit testy when things don't go his way, and hold a personal grudge against the Doctor. If nothing else, they have the same rubbishy beard.

I know the Monk has had several other incarnations in the Big Finish audio dramas - I'm most familiar with the Graeme Garden version from the Eighth Doctor stories - and it's clearly not the same character as either the Master or the Chief. But I couldn't tell you if the War Chief has ever appeared in the audios, and for some arbitrary reason I take the audios as closer to canon than the books or the comics, so there we are.

Anyway, I am nearing the end of the Third Doctor's era now, and it has definitely had a flavour all its own, quite different from the First or Second eras. Action Doctor Now With Moving Parts is in full effect, and I have come to chuckle at every "Hai!" The relationship with the Master was absolutely delightful - you can really tell that for all they are on opposite sides, they respect each other, and I'm not sure that tone has ever been captured quite as well again in future regenerations. For all its shoot-em-ups and hand-to-hand, the era also had a heavy emphasis on environmental and political issues as well; it's quite clear where the creators' heads were at.

The three companions. Liz and Sarah Jane both made brilliant entrances - strong, intelligent, capable women who captured the screen and the respect immediately. Unfortunately after such strong beginnings, they both seemed to get a bit screamy in the middle of their seasons, before ending strong again. Jo seemed to go the opposite way - started as a simpering nothing, but over three years had believable development and became a warm, loving, dependable and loyal woman, even if she was still a bit of a ditz at times.

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Anyway, I am nearing the end of the Third Doctor's era now, and it has definitely had a flavour all its own, quite different from the First or Second eras. Action Doctor Now With Moving Parts is in full effect, and I have come to chuckle at every "Hai!"

When I did my rewatch of the Hartnell and Troughton eras (and first-time watch of the reconstructions) a couple of years back, I was surprised to discover that the First Doctor was portrayed as quite the ass-kicker in his second season. In both "The Rescue" and "The Romans," and possibly others, he got into hand-to-hand fights with deadly foes and dispatched them quite easily, through the wonders of stage fight techniques where the throw-ee does all the work.

Which resolved a question I'd had for decades, which is how the Third Doctor already knew Venusian aikido upon his regeneration. I gathered there was a novel, Venusian Lullaby, that showed the First Doctor learning it, but it still seemed incongruous to me, because I had this image of the First Doctor as a frail man. But that was mistaking the actor for the character. The First Doctor was more of a man of action than I'd realized. I mean, I should've known that all along, since "The Rescue" and "The Romans" were part of the original '80s syndication package, but I guess the details had slipped my mind over the years.


The relationship with the Master was absolutely delightful - you can really tell that for all they are on opposite sides, they respect each other, and I'm not sure that tone has ever been captured quite as well again in future regenerations.

Yeah. It was a bit formulaic how they almost invariably ended up working together at the end to solve the problem the Master had helped create, but it did define a very interesting friend-foe dynamic between them.


The three companions. Liz and Sarah Jane both made brilliant entrances - strong, intelligent, capable women who captured the screen and the respect immediately. Unfortunately after such strong beginnings, they both seemed to get a bit screamy in the middle of their seasons, before ending strong again. Jo seemed to go the opposite way - started as a simpering nothing, but over three years had believable development and became a warm, loving, dependable and loyal woman, even if she was still a bit of a ditz at times.

I think Jo was underrated by fandom for a long time. And not just by them. Jo is probably the only classic series companion who ever single-handedly saved the world with no help from the Doctor; it was her self-sacrifice that destroyed Azal in "The Daemons" while the Doctor and UNIT were mucking about fruitlessly with heat barriers and gargoyles. And nobody ever gave her so much as a thank you. That always ticked me off. More generally, Jo saved the Doctor as often as he saved her -- and unhesitatingly threw herself into perceived danger to come to his aid, like in "The Curse of Peladon" when she thought Aggedor was trying to kill the Doctor and rushed in to save him. That impulse may have been misguided, but it was incredibly heroic. She may not have been a tough girl like Leela or Ace, but she had the strength that came from love and compassion and the pure instinct to help others. The Doctor once said that "Courage is being afraid and doing what you have to do anyway," and that makes Jo just about the most courageous companion ever.

Sarah Jane is awesome too, but I don't think she really came into her own until her later seasons with Baker. In her first couple of years, she was too self-consciously written as men's idea of a strident feminist. Once she was allowed to simply show her worth through her actions rather than words, she worked better as a character.
 
Which resolved a question I'd had for decades, which is how the Third Doctor already knew Venusian aikido upon his regeneration.

I'm surprised that question would have puzzled you for decades! Clearly, he could have learned it during his younger days in his first incarnation. We don't really know how old the Doctor was when the series starts (although I'm sure people have tried to estimate it). Given what we learn about the Doctor later in the series, it would not be surprising if he was well over 100 when the series starts, which gives him a long time to learn Venusian aikido!
 
I'm very pleased that I'm not alone in the War Chief=The Master think tank. If anything, it seems fitting that he'd be responsible for the Doctor's trial, forced regeneration and exile on Earth. And it otherwise makes sense, to me, of the Delgado Master's scheme in Terror of the Autons to also be a revenge ploy on the Doctor.

As for the Third Doctor's era... I think its certainly an enjoyable era, and I quite liked when I watched them stories properly back in the day. I was watching one or two serials per weekend, over the summer. It was nice, although it certainly wasn't as adult as Baker's early stuff or indeed his end. But it had a consistency to it, and while it more than frequently boring, it was never unmemorable (which I can definitely say for most of season 15, sadly), and Pertwee was always on form. And Jo Grant was absolutely a companion who grew and developed as a character, whereas I'd argue Sarah Janes didn't quite get to that. Fortunately for all, we did get more of her, so it retrospect it made "sense" that she didn't grow the way Jo did (who only did subtly, anyway).

I did watch Talons of Weng-Chiang again, btw. I always fear that the ol' six-episode-fatigue will settle in and I'll end up disliking it, but this serial (like Seeds of Doom before it) manages to keep me entertained through all six episodes of it. Brilliant, awesome, fantastic. And despite the casual racism, still of the top five Doctor Who stories out there.
 
Pretty much the bulk of Tom Baker's first season, on blu-ray. Some of it is slyly subversive (or even subverting subversion), some of it is just bad. But all of it is still sublime, even the bad - amazingly enough. Tom Baker took it from the get-go and ran with it. Whether it be for qualitative reasons or historical, Tom is still the ultimate incarnation. A shame that Harry didn't stay on longer...
 
A shame that Harry didn't stay on longer...

I gather that the reason they created Harry Sullivan was that they initially expected Tom Baker's Doctor to be a less physically active Doctor than Pertwee's, more like Hartnell or Troughton, which by '70s logic meant they'd need a young male lead to do the "running and punching." When it turned out that Baker was able to carry the physical stuff on his own, Harry became surplus to requirements, as they say in the UK.

I suspect that dropping Harry was also part of the general phasing out of the UNIT elements of the series. Though we got a few UNIT stories in Baker's first two years ("Robot," "Terror of the Zygons," and the Brigadier-less "The Android Invasion" and "The Seeds of Doom"), they stopped doing them altogether after that.
 
I gather that the reason they created Harry Sullivan was that they initially expected Tom Baker's Doctor to be a less physically active Doctor than Pertwee's,

Indeed, they were considering Bernard Cribbins, probably amongst others, for the role of the 4th Doctor.

general phasing out of the UNIT elements of the series. they stopped doing them altogether after that.

Don't forget that UNIT appeared in Battlefield along with the retired Brigadier!
 
Enemy Within - AKA, The TV Movie. I saw it again because I showed it a friend who'd never seen anything from the old show but only seen NuWho, and... its also the first time I actually, legitimately enjoyed it. A lot of still doesn't work (why does reality bend to the Master's attempting to fiddle with the Eye of Harmony? And the opening voiceover is just a no-no), but I did enjoy most it a lot. I love the look of it, I like a lot of Geoff Sax's directing of it, and I really love McGann in this, our precious little exposure of him in live-action. I hope the feeling lasts, because as is, its risen in appreciation for me.

Strange, huh?
 
Honestly, McGann carries that story all by himself in my opinion. There are a few other good individual elements like the amazing console room and my favorite death of a Doctor (the 7th Doctor dying is the most entertaining scene with him post Delta and the Bannermen), but without McGann the whole thing would have fallen apart. As it is its deeply flawed but entertaining story in my opinion. Maybe a bit too much in "so bad its good" territory at times, but with some very good elements in there.
 
why does reality bend to the Master's attempting to fiddle with the Eye of Harmony?

The Eye is basically a black hole operating as a spacetime warp, and opening it put the Earth in danger of being sucked into it. So basically the Earth was exposed to a massive distortion of space and time and a breakdown of the laws of physics. (Almost literally a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.)
 
But other than the Doctor being able to push in the panes of Grace's glass door, we don't really see any other warping effects and that particular element is never really mentioned again for the rest of the story.

The relationship with the Master was absolutely delightful - you can really tell that for all they are on opposite sides, they respect each other, and I'm not sure that tone has ever been captured quite as well again in future regenerations.

I'm still a little creeped out by the Doctor talking about how much he's looking forward to his next encounter with the Master at the end of "Terror of the Autons." I just keep thinking, "Dude! The Master murdered several people!"

A shame that Harry didn't stay on longer...

Agreed. While he wasn't needed to be an action hero, I felt that his nervous reluctance was a great contrast to the gung-ho attitudes of the Doctor & Sarah Jane. Harry filled much the same function as Rory did during the Matt Smith years.

Don't forget that UNIT appeared in Battlefield along with the retired Brigadier!

Yeah, but it was a 12 or 13 year gap between the last few UNIT stories in Tom Baker's 2nd year and their return in "Battlefield."

Honestly, McGann carries that story all by himself in my opinion. There are a few other good individual elements like the amazing console room

McGann is brilliant in the role and always has been. The DVD includes one of his early screen tests for the role (using a scene from a very different script than what they ended up using). Even at that early stage, he knocks it out of the park. At one point, you hear the director offscreen giving him some direction to be more excited and I'm like, "He is excited! Shut up and look at his eyes! The camera loves this man!"

I also really like McGann's console room except I don't like the metal support columns surrounding the console itself. They make it look too busy and they ruin the whole feng shui of the place.
 
But other than the Doctor being able to push in the panes of Grace's glass door, we don't really see any other warping effects and that particular element is never really mentioned again for the rest of the story.

Presumably they didn't have the budget to show more instances of it, so they established the threat with that one scene and relied on us to remember that the threat was there for the rest of the story.

I mean, did "The Pyramid of Mars" need to take multiple trips to 1980 to remind us that the present would be changed if Sutekh wasn't stopped? No, once was enough.


Agreed. While he wasn't needed to be an action hero, I felt that his nervous reluctance was a great contrast to the gung-ho attitudes of the Doctor & Sarah Jane. Harry filled much the same function as Rory did during the Matt Smith years.

Except that Rory only seemed like an imbecile at first, and caught up pretty quickly. Harry was always somewhat out of his depth. Even though my first exposure to Doctor Who was season 12, Harry Sullivan never really clicked for me as a character, and I didn't much miss him once he left.
 
Presumably they didn't have the budget to show more instances of it, so they established the threat with that one scene and relied on us to remember that the threat was there for the rest of the story.

I mean, did "The Pyramid of Mars" need to take multiple trips to 1980 to remind us that the present would be changed if Sutekh wasn't stopped? No, once was enough.

But it's just such an isolated incident and doesn't feel like it obviously ties into the overall idea of how the Master's plan has been explained (to the extent that the movie explained it at all).

Harry was always somewhat out of his depth. Even though my first exposure to Doctor Who was season 12, Harry Sullivan never really clicked for me as a character, and I didn't much miss him once he left.

Whereas I kinda lost interest in the 4th Doctor & Sarah Jane's antics once Harry was gone. The individual stories were still good but I've honestly always felt like Sarah Jane was an overrated companion and the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era is overrated generally. (It's not a bad era of the series but it just kinda feels like the show settled into a formula. They executed it well but it lacked the freewheeling sense of experimentation that tended to characterize the eras of the 1st 3 Doctors.)
 
But it's just such an isolated incident and doesn't feel like it obviously ties into the overall idea of how the Master's plan has been explained (to the extent that the movie explained it at all).

It wasn't a perfect story beat, no. But its real purpose was just to let the Doctor prove his wild claims to Grace, to show her something that was inexplicable and would convince her that he wasn't just a mental patient. It was a bit contrived to do it that way, but it served the purpose it ws meant for.


Whereas I kinda lost interest in the 4th Doctor & Sarah Jane's antics once Harry was gone. The individual stories were still good but I've honestly always felt like Sarah Jane was an overrated companion and the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era is overrated generally. (It's not a bad era of the series but it just kinda feels like the show settled into a formula. They executed it well but it lacked the freewheeling sense of experimentation that tended to characterize the eras of the 1st 3 Doctors.)

I think Sarah was a very good companion, though my fondness for her in the original show has increased in retrospect since The Sarah Jane Adventures, where she was just terrific.

And the Hinchcliffe era was certainly a damn sight better than the Graham Williams era. Sure, that era gave us "City of Death" and a few other good ones, but it also featured some of the franchise's worst serials (e.g. "The Horns of Nimon," "Underworld," and "The Invasion of Time") and took too much of a turn to goofiness overall.
 
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