Was DS9 anti-Vulcan (part 2)

[marsh8472]

I thought of something to respond with in the "Was DS9 anti-Vulcan" thread located here https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/was-ds9-anti-vulcan.285501/ but it hasn't been posted on in over a year (time flies, rule says not supposed to post in threads that have not been replied to in over a year).

So having seen apparently all the episodes with Vulcans I get the feeling DS9's writers obviously didn't like them.

In take me out to the holosuite the Romulan captain-errr I mean Romulan lite Vulcan captain acts like an arrogant jerk then Sisko takes this to the next level of "I got to be a bigger asshole and show this asshole whose boss."

Oh and the maquis episode where the female Vulcan actually tolerates Quark's efforts at flirting/suaving and then can't penetrate Dukat's mind m. Seriously? Just because Dukat has a more disciplined focused mind than most doesn't mean a Vulcan shouldn't be able to see into his mind. When I saw that scene I immediately thought the writers were taking a potshot at Vulcans in general.

I was thinking about the ending of episode "Vortex" and how that Vulcan ship helped Odo, Croden, and his daughter.

VULCAN [on monitor]: (a woman) Starfleet runabout, this is the Vulcan Science Vessel T'Vran. Are you in any difficulty?
ODO: Chief of Security Odo from DS Nine. We're fine, Captain.
VULCAN [on monitor]: We detected a major eruption in the Chamra vortex. I was afraid a small ship like yours might have suffered damage.
ODO: I appreciate your concern. What's your course?
VULCAN [on monitor]: To the wormhole, then home to Vulcan.
ODO: I've beamed over two survivors from a ship that wasn't so lucky. I have to complete a mission. Could you give them transportation to Vulcan?
VULCAN [on monitor]: Easily done. We will rendezvous with you shortly. Prepare for transport.
(transmission ends)
ODO: Don't thank me. I already regret it.
CRODEN: How? How will you explain not delivering me?
ODO: I'll tell them you were killed when Ah-Kel torpedoed the asteroid. This dissembling must be catching. You're going to have to get used to living in an alien society.
CRODEN: Like you. But I know where my home is. And perhaps someday I'll be able to go back there. I hope this helps you to find where you came from.
(Croden puts the locket around Odo's neck.)
VULCAN [OC]: T'Vran to Ganges. Ready for transport.
YARETH: Are you really a changeling?
ODO: Yes, I suppose I am. Go on, we don't want to keep the Vulcans waiting. Energising.
(He beams them out)

That was pretty nice of them showed concern, offered assistance, and gave free transportation to Vulcan for Croden and his daughter.

 

[Voth commando1]

I was the one who posted the original thread-I guess it's only fitting I am the first one to respond to the second one.

That is the main counter example.

Anyway the episodes with a Vulcan presence are Maquis parts 1 and 2, TMOTTH, Field of Fire(IIRC), and maybe one more. Vulcans appear in more episodes but they are just in the background or pass by-such as the rom forms a union episode.

As for Vulcans-they are in large part opposed to the pathos of deep space nine-which is based on emotion, intuition, faith, and passion. Rather than logic and stoicism.

That may be why the writers of DS9 often portrayed them in a less than appealing light.

For example the Vulcan captain at the end of TMOTTH-he gets worked up at the crew of DS9's taunting and storms off. That isn't something a Vulcan would do.

 

[Nyotarules]

For example the Vulcan captain at the end of TMOTTH-he gets worked up at the crew of DS9's taunting and storms off. That isn't something a Vulcan would do.

There are billions of Vulcans, who knows what they would do? Would you expect one to stop speaking to his son for 18 years cos he chose a career path he did not like? Would you expect the same father to have an arranged marriage for his son even tho he chose a human wife?
'Do as I say, not as I do' is not just a human failing in the Star Trek universe.
(Might as well argue Andor and Tellar left the Federation in the 24th century cos they are never seen on DS9, VOY or TNG since the writers ignored them.)

 

[XCV330]

For example the Vulcan captain at the end of TMOTTH-he gets worked up at the crew of DS9's taunting and storms off. That isn't something a Vulcan would do.

Most stand-out behavior noticed by Vulcans in Star Trek tends to be things that Vulcan's would not do. T'Pau so far has been the most Vulcany Vulcan repeat character, as far as I can tell, and that's probably because we have three episodes over 5 decades and a couple of movie appearances from her.

If we go by what we SEE from Vulcans, we know:

Vulcans throw soup when they are angry.
Vulcans play baseball.
Vulcans have pets when they are younger.
Vulcans build to aesthetic principles.
Vulcans wear loose-flowing robes.
Vulcans wear skintight catsuits.
Vulcans can compete with Humans and Tellarites and day of the week at being jerks.
Vulcans lie.
Vulcans cannot lie.
Vulcans exaggerate.
Vulcans are religious.
Vulcans have an immortal soul that fits neatly in a terracotta pot.
Vulcans mind rape.
Vulcans have at least one martial art.
Vulcans come in many shapes sizes and colors. They don't all go in for the bowl-cut, either.
Vulcans can be terrorists.
Vulcans can and often do rebel against logically established power structures.
Vulcans have interspecies relationships.
Vulcans spy.
Vulcans self-sacrifice.
Vulcans repress their emotions.
Vulcans mind meld. Not all can. But if you are on TV with a named character, you probably can.
Vulcans maintain trade networks.
Vulcans have monastic orders.
Vulcans have clerics.
Vulcans are meritocratic.
Vulcans are not meritocratic, careers determined by marital arrangements and lack of familiar scandal.


I'm sure there's more. I don't think there was enough Vulcan presense in DS9 to really sat they were anti-Vulcan, except to say as a species they were potentially dangerous, which they naturally would be.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Heavy is the burden of the True Scotsman.

 

[Nyotarules]

Heavy is the burden of the True Scotsman.

He better be naked under that kilt!

 

[XCV330]

He better be naked under that kilt!

 

[2takesfrakes]

I did not care for DS9's interpretation of the Vulcan race. In truth, I really only care for Mark Lenard's portrayals of Sarek, Tim Russ' essay of Tuvok and Spock when he was at his most Vulcanian ... pretty much most of TOS and the first couple TOS movies. Inclusive during this period, Vulcans are portrayed with great dignity and as being very mysterious, for the most part. Yes, there's Amok Time where Vulcan's portrayed as being all about bringing out the bells and whistles, whilst Stonn & T'Pring took advantage of Spock's being away, making them seem dishonest and low. I really disapprove of this portrayal of the Vulcans, for me, personally. But I understand that TOS needed to entertain and that came before treating Amok Time like it was some documentary, or simulation, of a passionless Vulcanian society. TMP & TSFS really had a handle on how to portray Vulcan proper and I wish it was able to stick. Unfortunately, DS9 just did what I guess it felt it had to do. That's entertainment ... what we crave for, inside.

 

[Greg Cox]

It's perhaps worth noting, however, that "Amok Time" was the very first episode to feature any Vulcan other than Spock and provided our very first glimpse of Vulcan society, so I'm not sure it can be dismissed as an outlier. And let it be noted that the very second episode to feature an actual Vulcan, "Journey to Babel," established that Sarek did not speak to his son for eighteen years over his choice of career, hid a major medical condition from his own wife, and, according to Spock, was perfectly capable of killing in cold blood if he had a "logical" reason to do so.

TOS made it pretty clear that the Vulcans were hardly as "passionless" as they liked to think they were. Seems to me that TOS and DS9 were largely on the same page.

 

[Voth commando1]

Speaking of Tim Russ I always did love his performance on Voyager.

As for passion-Vulcans aren't emotionless but it takes a lot to stir them to emotion. They don't cry or get angry or break out dancing in joy-at least not 99.99% of the time. When they do its a noteworthy occurrence.

This is because Vulcans have both cultural and biological emotion suppression mechanisms. They are extremely stoic and are not moved to emotion easily.

It does happen and has happened-but it's both rare and takes a lot to do.

 

[2takesfrakes]

It's perhaps worth noting, however, that "Amok Time" was the very first episode to feature any Vulcan other than Spock and provided our very first glimpse of Vulcan society, so I'm not sure it can be dismissed as an outlier. And let it be noted that the very second episode to feature an actual Vulcan, "Journey to Babel," established that Sarek did not speak to his son for eighteen years over his choice of career, hid a major medical condition from his own wife, and, according to Spock, was perfectly capable of killing in cold blood if he had a "logical" reason to do so.

TOS made it pretty clear that the Vulcans were hardly as "passionless" as they liked to think they were. Seems to me that TOS and DS9 were largely on the same page.

In universe, certainly, Vulcans are famous for their secretiveness ... so it's not surprising that Sarek would keep his condition to himself. They're an intensely private people. Perhaps this is because of the "terrible intimacy" involved with mind-melds that makes them so, coupled with their semi-telepathic abilities, in general. Yes, Amanda's Human, obviously, but that would have no baring on Sarek's desire to keep certain matters to himself, especially those that pertain to his person. There ARE logical reasons to kill, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about Sarek, there. Having a reason to kill does not equate to having a desire to kill. The "in cold blood" description is simply hyperbole that was not a part of the actual dialogue in that scene. As to his rift with Spock, I must admit that you have me, there. It's not very logical to practically disown your son because he chose an honourable career.

Also, yes ... it's well-established that Vulcans do have emotions and that their sharp intensity is the very reason they strive to become passionless. So a passionless society is, for the most part, what they've created. Humans are prone to violence and yet, we're not actively killing eachother on the streets, constantly. We fall short of acting out on those baser instincts but there are external reasons for that and it isn't necessary to suppress our emotions ... just those desires. Part of it is the laws we've made, but crimes of passion are not uncommon. The Vulcan solution to that very same problem is, of course, purging emotional expression. That's what their society, their culture aims for, it's the goal they privately set out for through attainment, even, of the Kholinar. They WANT to be emotionless, which -- for me -- amounts to the same thing, just about as actually being so. But I'm watching the same franchise you are, we know the same, elementary basics the show's presented ... in this case, on Vulcans.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I've never seen DS9 as being anti-Vulcan, if anything they help flesh out the species in their fleeting appearances in the series. Despite how some seem the treat them, they aren't devoid of emotions, and this was something DS9 explored--such as Lieutenant Chu'lak being so traumatised by the loss of so many shipmates and friends that he became a murderer, or Captain Solok whose over-inflated opinion of himself coloured his perception of other races due to the flaws he perceived in them.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think the Vulcans just assigned all their least logical Vulcans to DS9, like it gets people they don't like out out of the way for longer.

Like,
"Hey guys, you know how we can prove that Vulcans are superior to humans? BASEBALL!"
"Right...hey, we've got an urgent assignment for you, why don't you head off to DS9?"

 

[Greg Cox]

The way I see it, Vulcans are extremists, not role models. Just because Spock is admirable doesn't mean that every other Vulcan is.

 

[Nyotarules]

The way I see it, Vulcans are extremists, not role models. Just because Spock is admirable doesn't mean that every other Vulcan is.

Using Spock as an example for all of Vulcan makes as much sense as using John Paxton as an example for all of Earth. A culture based on logic does make the whole species paragons of virtue. Even Spock had a few 'what the hell did he just say' moment...re Wolf in the fold episode. Re Amok Time , Spock did not give a hoot about T'Pring she was there to scratch his 7 year itch, no wonder she was resentful.