Yup. I loved the Luke, Rey, Kylo Ren storyline, but found the B-story where the Rebels are being chased decidedly average.
After TLJ, Is "Franchise Fatigue' now Plaguing Star Wars?
- Thread starter Kane_Steel
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Yup. I loved the Luke, Rey, Kylo Ren storyline, but found the B-story where the Rebels are being chased decidedly average.
I agree with you that fans are fickle, but I would say a combination of nostalgia, time/distance, and also some disenchantment with the sequel films could be why some are reassessing the prequels. Despite my dislike of the sequels, I still rank them over Episode I. But all along, I liked Episode II and Episode III. Neither film was perfect, but I enjoyed them, especially Episode III, much more than what Disney (live-action) has produced (with the exception of Rogue One, which is like a long introduction to Episode IV anyway).
Han Solo is one of the most iconic characters, but it's key to me that it is Harrison Ford playing Han Solo, more so than just "Han Solo", so just having some other actor inhabit the role wasn't enough for a lot of people to flock to theaters. It also doesn't help that most folks have seen how Solo's story/life ends so the unpredictability is gone. Most what's left is learning the small little things about the character, or rests on establishing new characters (Qi'ra, Beckett, Val, etc.) and making the audience care about them, or giving us more info about previously established fan favorites like Chewbacca and Lando. And while I've read that Solo is really a Chewbacca film, the movie isn't marketed that way, and I've also seen online wishing that we got a Lando movie instead of a Han film. A Lando movie at least opens up the door to explore a fairly unexamined character whereas for me, Solo's key character moment, his arc, happens in Episode IV when he goes from selfish smuggler to helping the rebellion. I couldn't see them really coming up with a much of an arc for him in a prequel film, so what's the point? I guess the point is returning to the Star Wars universe and wallowing in nostalgia, but just a few months ago, some of the prime nostalgia market was insulted (or perceived to be) by Lucasfilm, which was a bad move from a PR standpoint.
From what I can gather the view that Solo was unasked for goes across the spectrum of opinion on the film and of Disney Lucasfilm. It's not reflection on the quality (or lack thereof) of Solo, but if people are burned out, ho-hum, or fuming over a project (and a project with publicly known production troubles) then I can see why people weren't feeling Solo in sufficient numbers to hit the projected box office totals. It's lightning in a bottle to recapture the magic, the essence of iconic characters. James Bond has done it well, and made re-castings an event, but the Bond example is pretty rare and not easily emulated. Comic book films, to some extent, have mastered it, though in the comic book world there is a lot of rebooting, redesigning characters, etc. Star Wars isn't like that. So far, Mark Hamill IS Luke. Carrie Fisher WAS Leia. And Ford IS Solo. It wasn't simply just the character was cool, it's the actor embodying the role. Arguably, Lando IS Billy Dee Williams. Darth Vader, Yoda, Chewbacca and the droids get passes because they are covered from head to toe, though Anthony Daniels will be hard to replace, and also James Earl Jones's voice is so resonant it will be hard to emulate him; also Frank Oz. Rogue One just didn't try to recast Leia or Tarkin and used CGI to de-age or resurrect them. I can't see Star Wars going that route across the board, however it is an acknowledgement of how tied the actors are to their famous Star Wars roles.
Trek 2009 did a very good job with recasting, more than I thought, but even they couldn't maintain sufficient interest over the course of three films. Certainly a 'minor' or 'side' character like Pike can be recast to great effect, and recast again in Discovery (which I'm looking forward to) but recasting iconic characters is tough, even if you get good actors to fill in the new roles.
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I know I'm in the minority in this opinion, but I have always struggled with how knowing an ending can ruin an experience. By that argument, Anakin becoming Darth Vader was a given so why tell the prequel trilogy at all?
I also know I'm in the minority in that I never particularly cared for Han Solo, save for in TFA were he took on a more fatherly role. The dashing rogue character was never one I resonated with, and find just a little too over the top. His redemption in ANH is interesting, largely because it subverted tropes of the times. His death is more tragic for me because he was trying to save his son, and that resonates more to me.
Solo, like the PT, for me, may have been unasked for, but I at least felt like I care more about Solo as a character, feel far more informed about him because of all the little details that pop in the movie. It's strange to me how I can go from largely ambivalent to Solo as a character to more invested because of this film, yet the film is regarded as unasked for.
All the other arguments now are very biased because of hatred towards one person. This is why I don't take any of this seriously. I am not going to throw stock behind any of the anti-Kennedy propaganda simply because videos are being produced by individuals with an unearned platform.
As has been repeatedly demonstrated, Solo's faltering at the box office has to do with multiple factors, the least of which may be TLJ response. Kennedy was not wholly responsible for Solo, since the Solo film was actually greenlit by Bog Iger himself, and Lawarence Kasdan.
It shocks and saddens me, yet should come as no surprise, that there is so much ill will wished towards one person when so many other factors are involved.
George Lucas.
Rick Berman.
J.J. Abrams.
Damon Lindelof & Carlton Cuse. (Okay, that's two people.)
We have a history of this constant putting blame on individuals (or duos) and it is so exhausting. I keep asking why I want to be a fan of anything when there's so much venom out there in the world. Unfortunately I don't have an answer. And for some reason I can't step away. Its frustrating.
But this all comes down to fan entitlement. "Its not what *I* wanted so it sucks." This has got to stop.
Most of the videos and the like that are being touted boiled down to this statement. And, it does sadden me. It frustrates me and more than that it baffles me. In franchise that supposedly espouses love over hate, this is incongruent, at best.
It's called the law of diminishing returns. It's pretty standard in sequel films.
Yeah, it is. It's about how he can't trust anyone.
I am now convinced I watch different films than others.
Dunno, never been there before... Found the link on another forum. It's a slightly different take on this whole fiasco.
Ever noticed how YouTubers cut their videos to just under 10 minutes? It's apparently the average attention span limit of a typical modern-day media consumer or some shit.
Mach5, your post is over ten words long and I didn't read it.
It bothers me in general that we'd rather get our "news" from vlogs as opposed to actually reading an article, or God forbid, a book to learning more about a subject. Its pretty sad.
I can respect that. But look, Jeremy Jahns (not popular in these waters, I know) made a video about the current state of Star Wars and its 15 MINUTES LONG!Mach5, your post is over ten words long and I didn't read it.
I totally stopped paying attention after the 10-minute mark...
But seriously, he does make a valid point or two.
My newspaper of choice just installed a new editor-in-chief, who immediately announced the abandonment of the current paradygm (which they've more or less maintained since the paper's foundation in 1900.) in favor of what would basically become a printed equivalent of clickbait. I cant even begin to describe my feelings on the matter. Anger-times-disbelief to the power of 100.
I do need to watch this when I have a moment. Or fifteen, apparently. (And its not that he's unpopular, at least in my brain. I honestly have no idea who he is and why I should take him seriously.)
Yuck.
It wasn’t for RoTJ or RoTS. They were good enough to overcome that. Which is why Episode 9’s take will be quite telling.
I saw another article that also mentioned it coming out to close to Infinity War, and kind of treated as blockbuster overload in general, not necessarily just Star Wars.
I noticed this when I was looking through the ratings for it on Amazon, it's almost all one star and five stars, with only a small handful of other ratings.
Here are the percentages:
5 stars: 36%
4 stars: 10%
3 stars: 7%
2 stars: 9%
1 star: 38%
I've very rarely seen a spread like that. Knowing some of the stuff that was going on on other sites, I do somewhat question the legitimacy of the 1 stars. Either way, it definitely not a movie that everybody hated, there obviously must have been a lot of people that liked it, if the 5s are able to match the 1s so closely.
As with most rules, there are exceptions. But, generally, that is unusual, and not as worrisome as the Internet would have us believe.
Positing a theory... If I love or even just like something I buy or watch, I honestly never write reviews for them. If I hate something or feel as though I've been slighted, you bet I'm going to complain about it in a review.
Case in point: My wife and I bought a house in September 2016. About a year ago, our air conditioning broke. Part of the purchase of the home, a home warranty was included. To make a long story very short, the contractor the home warranty company sent out were more interested in selling us a new HVAC unit as opposed to actually working on the problem and attempted to strong arm us into a purchase. They went so far as to suggest in their report to the warranty company that we had not maintained the unit. (While the unit was dirty, it had been serviced right before we had purchased the home including a cleaning.) The home warranty denied our claims and while we were able to get the unit up and running for a little while, the unit died (it was, if I recall correctly, 12-15 years old) and we had to replace it, with no help at all from the home warranty company (which we allowed our contract to lapse).
If you don't think I wrote negative reviews in every corner of the internet I could find, you'd be incorrect. I think I may have written one positive review for the company that did a fantastic job installing our new system.
My point is: I don't often take the time to write a positive review if everything goes to plan. I can imagine that many people follow that rule, but if something goes terribly wrong? How many people are going to choose to take the time to be vocal when they feel they've been slighted? I think that holds some truth in regards to HVAC systems and Star Wars movies. I'll admit this is anecdotal, but I'd love to know how many people would agree or disagree with that mindset.
I worked in retail for 11 years, so while anecdotal, I certainly saw it employed at a corporate level. The rule they followed was that it takes 10 positive experiences to undo one negative experience. Often times, those customers who have a negative experience don't say anything to the staff-they simply walk out and don't come back. No comment, no review, just leave.
Now, the Internet may alter how it gets expressed, but, as a general rule, I don't see people willing to make the effort to review unless the things stands out as being egregiously bad. Even more so with a positive experience, which were treated like gold at the company I worked for.
People see more apt to give up and move on that stick around and complain. At least, in person
When it comes to online news and entertainment. Given the choice, of either watching a vlog, or not knowing. I choose not knowing every time.
While I take your point, my problem with vlogs is that more often than not (there are exceptions) you get far too much unprofessional commentary on the subject. There is a slant to everything, even the written news. But a professional journalist will do their best to minimize that. There is very little effort for that in vlogs.
