Precisely so.
After TLJ, Is "Franchise Fatigue' now Plaguing Star Wars?
- Thread starter Kane_Steel
- Start date
Also, a tiny subset of "butthurt" fans acting like "the loudest voices in the room" does not in any way, shape, or form make The Last Jedi a poor film, and most rational people understand and recognize that.
Good thing, I didn’t say that.
Never claimed that either. Pretty explicit that it was racist arseholes.
Funny how they swore to do it to BP and Captain Marvel, but not Avengers and Spider-Man.
Diversity done right= Wait decade until you can guarantee that you can even sell a talking tree movie, then hedge your bets that people might go watch the Black Guy.
Yeah...except the early handling of ‘diversity’ in the MCU wasn’t Feige’s choice. He kinda uprooted that whole system that produced most of P1&2, because he thought there was a creative problem there.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/09/marvel-studios-ike-perlmutter-kevin-feige
One of which apparently was ‘I’m haven’t been allowed to make Captain Marvel and BP, because my boss is convinced fans won’t watch them!’
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I don't really think it's franchise fatigue. But in the past, the SW movies were spread out more by several years at least, and decades spent waiting for new trilogies. So, there was an allure and genuine excitement when a new one finally came out. But now that we can see multiple SW movies a year come out, I think people have become a little more critical. That magic, that allure, isn't what it once was, and I think any faults they do have become much more glaring. I'll still end up seeing this, but I have to admit that none of the trailers really drew me in.
Spider-Man Homecoming is not a Marvel Studios film.
Sorry to beat that dead horse, but the spread of misinformation in that regard drives me crazy.
Releasing this movie in May may have been the scale-tipping mistake that ultimately killed it. Merely five months have passed since TLJ opened, and it was still playing in theaters only three months ago. That's way too soon, especially considering the controversy that surrounded it.
And then there's the competition. Infinity War and Deadpool are still going strong, and the two highly anticipated sequels, Incredibles 2 and Jurassic World 2 are just around the corner.
The Battle of the Five Armies, a truly dreadful, boring film with a bunch of unintentionally comical action scenes and some of the worst CGI I've ever seen in a major motion picture came out in December and grossed nearly a billion dollars. Solo won't even make half of that.
And then there's the competition. Infinity War and Deadpool are still going strong, and the two highly anticipated sequels, Incredibles 2 and Jurassic World 2 are just around the corner.
The Battle of the Five Armies, a truly dreadful, boring film with a bunch of unintentionally comical action scenes and some of the worst CGI I've ever seen in a major motion picture came out in December and grossed nearly a billion dollars. Solo won't even make half of that.
Fixed that for you.
Also, it's far too premature to make assumptions about Solo's ultimate BO performance.
God, not this again.
No, it really isn't. Solo's overseas weekend take was downright pathetic, 65 mil., and the movie would now need a fucking miracle to avoid a serious disaster and disprove these assumptions.
I haven’t seen it yet. Doing my bit to hurt that international take, I guess. It’s not TLJ’s fault.
It’s because my interest in a Han Solo film was pretty minimal, and the trailers did nothing to ignite that burning spark of interest. I’ll see it in theatres, but I’m not in a rush.
(I’ve also been pulling 12 hour workdays for the last fortnight, so maybe all spark of life has just been completely drained out of me. Who the fuck knows?)
Oddly, my local theatre seemed to have the same view. Every other live action SW had a midnight release, including rereleases of the OT. Not this one. You can’t even blame that decision on a bad domestic box office take, because preorders are usually months in advance and we got it the same day as the US.
It’s because my interest in a Han Solo film was pretty minimal, and the trailers did nothing to ignite that burning spark of interest. I’ll see it in theatres, but I’m not in a rush.
(I’ve also been pulling 12 hour workdays for the last fortnight, so maybe all spark of life has just been completely drained out of me. Who the fuck knows?)
Oddly, my local theatre seemed to have the same view. Every other live action SW had a midnight release, including rereleases of the OT. Not this one. You can’t even blame that decision on a bad domestic box office take, because preorders are usually months in advance and we got it the same day as the US.
Solo was essentially a rebooted Star Wars with new, younger versions of established characters, and the film itself was mediocre. The Last Jedi was part 2 of a trilogy with characters which mean more to the public. Star Wars IX will do huge numbers, although likely we are entering diminishing returns.
It'll be interesting to see how the movies perform once the live-action series begins.
It'll be interesting to see how the movies perform once the live-action series begins.
^ Agreed. It’s more of a referendum on the spinoff films than it is the saga. I mean, fans made a huge deal about TLJ’s box office “failure” (read: made less than TFA) not being Rogue One’s fault but really on TFA. But now, whatever Solo does is completely on TLJ, Johnson and Kennedy.
Which is a load of bullshit.
Which is a load of bullshit.
Of course it's not going to go away. Just like Trek never went away forever even when it had it's time with franchise fatigue. What can happen though is the way they handle the franchise. New people in charge. New ways of promoting them. Maybe spreading them out more often. The eventually reboot of the canon. Their is time coming when the reboot happens and people are going to be complaining about why Yoda is now human sized and looks more like a troll and maybe Andy Sirtis is doing his thing for the facial reactions in the CGI. The Wookie fur doesn't look right and so forth. If they are good though people will end up liking them. If Disney is still in charge which is likely they will then burn people out on them yet again and then the cycle repeats.
Jason
Solo was released about five months after TLJ so I can see why there would be a correlation between the divisive TLJ and Solo's underwhelming (thus far) box office. TFA and Rogue One weren't as divisive as TLJ has been among fandom.
I didn't watch Solo and I'm not going to. I can't say that any boycott, real or perceived, 'hurts' Lucasfilm in the long run when you tally up all the box office receipts from their previous Star Wars films, and all the other money they are raking in from merchandise. Even Solo, if it loses money, is a loss they can eat and keep moving. But this isn't completely about money, it's also about perception. Disney's once unassailable stewardship of the Star Wars franchise now has to face negative press in ways that it didn't pre-TLJ and from the period of TLJ to Solo, and the boycott (whether it's large or merely a phantom menace) does play a role in that and in giving Star Wars the first black eye of the Disney era. I would also speculate that it would be some of the disgruntled fans who would have been first out the gate for Solo (a movie seemingly tailor made for fans who felt insulted by some of the Lucasfilm response to TLJ criticism) and would be repeat ticket buyers and also purchase tons of the merchandise, while also spreading the word through social media. So, while Disney isn't hurt overall. I mean Disney weathered Lone Ranger, John Carter, Tomorrowland, Alice in Wonderland, and Mars Needs Moms, Lucasfilm does have a headline generating disappointment on its hands. And I think the suits need to figure out what went wrong with Solo and did the problems extend beyond the film itself.
Disney/Lucasfilm could read Solo's 'failure' as a rare misstep and not alter their plans. Or they could see it as their saga films, which made tons of money, are fine, but the anthology films need rethinking. I hope they see it as TLJ, and perhaps more importantly, their PR response to TLJ antagonized fans they should keep in their corner, and that the backlash/boycott to Solo could've been lessened, if not outright prevented, if one TLJ had been better IMO, but also in how they handled fans' complaints about that film which left some people feeling disrespected, frustrated and angry and widened divides in fandom. Lucasfilm had every right to defend TLJ, but I don't think they went about it the right way, and I feel the Solo box office is partially reflected in that. There could be other factors-Memorial Day isn't that kind to Disney, Solo wasn't a film that people were that hyped to see regardless (The idea of a young Han Solo film doesn't seem to have been that appealing, plus while it's the return of old characters, it not the return of the vets like Harrison Ford and Billy Dee Williams), Infinity War and Deadpool 2 are stiff competition, the troubled production drama gave the film a whiff of disarray (a la Justice League), the advertising wasn't as all out as it has been for the saga films (I can't recall if Rogue One got more marketing, but I think that it did. It certainly seemed to have more toys), and so there's other factors that could be at play here, among the ones listed and others I am unaware of. But I also feel the divided reaction to TLJ also was a factor and it's one that I think Disney should be concerned about addressing because now that Solo 'failed' it could mean the start of a slow bleeding out of the franchise.
It's good that Episode IX is next year. It gives Disney time to repair the breach with disgruntled fans. But it also gives these fans time to miss Star Wars and also for the revolting fans to reassess their own views and actions. They might become more emboldened by their 'success' in boycotting Solo, or they might waver or change their minds and become more supportive of Episode IX if they feel Star Wars as a brand is imperiled by Solo's performance. Disney can take this loss as an opportunity to retool, rebuild, and spin it to have a come from behind story. It already raises the stakes for Episode IX and sets up a nice media story about if Star Wars take a punch and get back up. Disney could also take this time to reconnect, or attempt to, with disgruntled fans and see if they can bring them back inside the tent.
For me, I'm not sure if I will support Episode IX. I haven't enjoyed the new saga films, I was turned off by the petulant reaction from Lucasfilm over TLJ criticism. I liked Rogue One. And from what I've seen of the spoilers for Solo I likely would've considered Solo a decent film and likely would've enjoyed it more than TFA or TLJ, but this time I just won't spend my money on another film from a franchise that I felt was too dismissive of many fans who held disagreeing bones of contention (many that I also held) over the last film, TLJ.
I didn't watch Solo and I'm not going to. I can't say that any boycott, real or perceived, 'hurts' Lucasfilm in the long run when you tally up all the box office receipts from their previous Star Wars films, and all the other money they are raking in from merchandise. Even Solo, if it loses money, is a loss they can eat and keep moving. But this isn't completely about money, it's also about perception. Disney's once unassailable stewardship of the Star Wars franchise now has to face negative press in ways that it didn't pre-TLJ and from the period of TLJ to Solo, and the boycott (whether it's large or merely a phantom menace) does play a role in that and in giving Star Wars the first black eye of the Disney era. I would also speculate that it would be some of the disgruntled fans who would have been first out the gate for Solo (a movie seemingly tailor made for fans who felt insulted by some of the Lucasfilm response to TLJ criticism) and would be repeat ticket buyers and also purchase tons of the merchandise, while also spreading the word through social media. So, while Disney isn't hurt overall. I mean Disney weathered Lone Ranger, John Carter, Tomorrowland, Alice in Wonderland, and Mars Needs Moms, Lucasfilm does have a headline generating disappointment on its hands. And I think the suits need to figure out what went wrong with Solo and did the problems extend beyond the film itself.
Disney/Lucasfilm could read Solo's 'failure' as a rare misstep and not alter their plans. Or they could see it as their saga films, which made tons of money, are fine, but the anthology films need rethinking. I hope they see it as TLJ, and perhaps more importantly, their PR response to TLJ antagonized fans they should keep in their corner, and that the backlash/boycott to Solo could've been lessened, if not outright prevented, if one TLJ had been better IMO, but also in how they handled fans' complaints about that film which left some people feeling disrespected, frustrated and angry and widened divides in fandom. Lucasfilm had every right to defend TLJ, but I don't think they went about it the right way, and I feel the Solo box office is partially reflected in that. There could be other factors-Memorial Day isn't that kind to Disney, Solo wasn't a film that people were that hyped to see regardless (The idea of a young Han Solo film doesn't seem to have been that appealing, plus while it's the return of old characters, it not the return of the vets like Harrison Ford and Billy Dee Williams), Infinity War and Deadpool 2 are stiff competition, the troubled production drama gave the film a whiff of disarray (a la Justice League), the advertising wasn't as all out as it has been for the saga films (I can't recall if Rogue One got more marketing, but I think that it did. It certainly seemed to have more toys), and so there's other factors that could be at play here, among the ones listed and others I am unaware of. But I also feel the divided reaction to TLJ also was a factor and it's one that I think Disney should be concerned about addressing because now that Solo 'failed' it could mean the start of a slow bleeding out of the franchise.
It's good that Episode IX is next year. It gives Disney time to repair the breach with disgruntled fans. But it also gives these fans time to miss Star Wars and also for the revolting fans to reassess their own views and actions. They might become more emboldened by their 'success' in boycotting Solo, or they might waver or change their minds and become more supportive of Episode IX if they feel Star Wars as a brand is imperiled by Solo's performance. Disney can take this loss as an opportunity to retool, rebuild, and spin it to have a come from behind story. It already raises the stakes for Episode IX and sets up a nice media story about if Star Wars take a punch and get back up. Disney could also take this time to reconnect, or attempt to, with disgruntled fans and see if they can bring them back inside the tent.
For me, I'm not sure if I will support Episode IX. I haven't enjoyed the new saga films, I was turned off by the petulant reaction from Lucasfilm over TLJ criticism. I liked Rogue One. And from what I've seen of the spoilers for Solo I likely would've considered Solo a decent film and likely would've enjoyed it more than TFA or TLJ, but this time I just won't spend my money on another film from a franchise that I felt was too dismissive of many fans who held disagreeing bones of contention (many that I also held) over the last film, TLJ.
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Yeah, none of this stuff is ever going to happen.
Star Wars will remain as it is for a very long time, regardless of opinions to the contrary, because it's not simply a film franchise: it's an indelible part of our culture in a way that no other IP - including Star Trek - ever will be.
What do you mean it won't happen? It's happened twice! Went away for almost 20 years between Classic Wars and the Prequels and then went away again for another 10 plus years I believe between the prequels and "Force Awakens." and this was before the stuff started getting political except for some of Lucas's kind of racist stuff people didn't like to talk about going all the way back to no black people in the first movie to the sterotypes in the prequels. Also just ask the DCU on how smart it is to just assume your going to be around forever. Soon the older fans who grew up on the classics are going to die off and do you think the Prequels plus the new stuff is enough to keep the "Star Wars" name what it has been? I mean it is a big enough name where it won't fully vanish but I suspect in 20 years the MCU will be to young adults what "Star Wars" was to my and the previous generation. "Star Wars" might still be called a franchise but it will be on much more shaky ground than it's ever been. "Star Wars" will be like the "Aliens" movies are today. This beloved old franchise from the past that people still have found memories for but it won't be this big universal monster that consumes all the money. If Disney had a choice right now and had to pick which franchise to kick out between the MCU and Star Wars does anyone feel like it wouldn't be a lock they would choose "St Wars? The MCU basically is a franchise filled with mini-franchises witihin it. That's quite a feat that I don't think we have ever seen.
Jason
whod have ever thought the day would come when a Star Wars be doing about the same numbers as Star Trek!! (reminds me of summer 2009 when Star Trek was doing better than Terminator and thinking how if youd told someone back in 1991 that one day a Trek movie would be outgrossing a Terminator theyd just LOL .. and now it looks like Solo will be lucky to do Into Darkness numbers!!)
Star Wars is a brand that is actively sustained by far more things than films; that is why your doom and gloom proclamations will never come to pass.
Lucasfilm could cease making Star Wars films entirely tomorrow (they won't, but they could), and the property would continue to live on in perpetuity.
Also, do not mistake a very few loud and strident voices whining in order to get themselves noticed as being an indicator that the Star Wars brand has been "tarnished".
Fans don't make the movie any worse or better. Only the movie does that.
I checked out a couple internet reviews for "Solo". Wow. It's not merely ironic, how they act. They are screaming, using the F-word incessantly as if they just had their best friend murdered in front of them or something. No... They act like people they call "SJWs", except it's over a pointless pandering movie. They're just upset they are the ones not being pandered to.
People said the same thing about western-themed films, stage plays, and so on. Eventually the regurgitation will end and the same tropes will be influence on something different as opposed to reboots or cannibalism, noting that "Rogue One" didn't expand much on a story that was sufficiently told in "A New Hope"'s opening credits and later exposition AND how "Solo" shows the gambling and Kessel Run and offering nothing else of substance considering the backstory was told sufficiently in 1980. It's been said before, the movies are trying to answer questions that haven't been made because there's nothing needing to be asked and nothing to tell. Pandering with characters only insults the audience as well, then wait for the rejection of that being used as to why the box office returns are so bad and aimed at the wrong people, sorry to defend the SW haters given most of their immature rants over 2 hours of nothing being dressed with generic CGI.
NYT: ‘Solo’ Sputters at Box Office, Raising Worries of ‘Star Wars’ Fatigue
So Hollis is still hoping the word of mouth will minimize the damage, at lest domestically. Overseas it seems like a lost cause.
