Discovery Showrunner Promises Season 2 Character Exploration And Tying Up Canon Loose Ends

[XCV330]

"Fanwank" is a meaningless term that should be put to rest with Mary Sue. No one can agree on what any of these terms mean, and they're are probably better ways of stating whatever anyone intends.

You run a star trek show or write for it. You have decades of backstory. If you try to ignore it, you're going to look ridiculous. Even in reboot form, you're going to stick your shoe in old footprints. That doesn't mean you HAVE to glory in old moments just to get a cheap appreciation from fans, the easy way out, but it can add tremendously in ways that doesn't hurt the storytelling. It is all about the stories. A little scenery doesn't hurt the story if you don't get lost in it.

TWOK, for instance, paints this picture of an old arch enemy. Happens from a previous episode, yes, but you don't actually have to have scene Space Seed, or even have ever seen TOS at all, to get TWOK.

DSC mentions USS Shran. There's an odd ship name. Oh there's a ensign named Decker. Lot of people on that ship, wonder which one he or she is. For people who know those names, great, but they're not getting in the way. You're not pulled to the side by Lt Commander Loremaster to explain WHY those names are important.

TSFS may be the episode that does go too far in that regard just by actually replaying too much previous footage of the LAST movie. Saved money, I'm sure but it was unnecessary. "Hey you liked watching Spock die of radiation burns so much, let's show it again!"

Other movies did the same thing at the time though. The cut of Superman II that made it to the theaters also played previous movie scenes, so it was not alone in that regard. Directors were not quite ready for the age of VCR. Star Wars got around the issue with the Crawl. TWOK did the same thing with a handful of lines by Montalban, Koenig, and Shatner.

 

[F. King Daniel]

it's definitely like 'fan-edging' or something.

That term is going in my head-canon.

 

[Jinn]

It seems unplausible.

I just remind even ferengi know of MU...

Well, we know that Bashir read about the MU in the Academy, so we can pretty much confirm that the MU was declassified sometime between "Mirror, Mirror" and the 2360s when Bashir was at the Academy. It its thought at the Academy I don't see why the Ferengi wouldn't know about that.

 

[eschaton]

I don't think that counts. If anything, it's continuity done right. TWOK uses pre-existing events as a springboard to explore some really big themes -- aging, friendship, obsession, death. And it makes some really daring moves, from breaking the mold on Kirk to killing off Spock. I only wish Discovery had that much to say.

Just because something is good doesn't mean it's not fanwank.

Fanwank doesn't mean "poorly done callbacks I don't like." Well done callbacks are just as fanwanky.

 

[Jadeb]

Just because something is good doesn't mean it's not fanwank.

Fanwank doesn't mean "poorly done callbacks I don't like." Well done callbacks are just as fanwanky.

I think we use different definitions for this. To me, "fanwank" is a derogatory term for referential material that's only there to titillate and service existing fans. Like the tribble on Lorca's desk. If continuity enriches the narrative, as it does in TWOK, that's just good storytelling.

 

[Ovation]

Didn't Admiral Katrina Delet any record definetely?

Also, In DS9 Bashir knows about MU, and he is just a leautenant

And I know most of the details of the Manhattan Project. So?

 

[Ovation]

Lt Commander Loremaster

An officer who should make RARE appearances.

 

[XCV330]

An officer who should make RARE appearances.

He just won't shut up, once you get him started, that guy.

 

[Rahul]

Just because something is good doesn't mean it's not fanwank.

Fanwank doesn't mean "poorly done callbacks I don't like." Well done callbacks are just as fanwanky.

'The Wrath of Khan' is definitely NOT fanwank - it's a sequel (that even stands pretty much on it's own, as it's "previously on"-scene where they retold the events of the previous adventure also served as the introduction scene to Khan).

There is a stark difference between "fanwank" and merely "serialization". It is absolutely okay to continue previous plot elements or even characters. It only becomes "fanwank" when the references outweigh the original material. In the case ot TWOK, the whole movie is essentially an original story.

'Into Darkness', despite using Khan as well as it's main villain, likewise is mostly a new and original story. The only parts where 'Into Darkness' went full fanwank was when Spock yelled "Khan", and they slavishly replayed the radiation chamber-deathscene, original dialogue included. That was fanwank, in it's purest form. It wasn't original, and it didn't even have a meaning in this context on it's own, beyond a reference to the original - while the previous parts of the movie (Khan as a terrorist) usually created their own, new content with the established characters.

Likewise, DIS isn't 'fanwank' because it has two episodes with Mudd in it, or because it has klingons or the MU. It is fanwank because it doesn't have much else beyond that to offer.

 

[eschaton]

'The Wrath of Khan' is definitely NOT fanwank - it's a sequel (that even stands pretty much on it's own, as it's "previously on"-scene where they retold the events of the previous adventure also served as the introduction scene to Khan).

There is a stark difference between "fanwank" and merely "serialization". It is absolutely okay to continue previous plot elements or even characters. It only becomes "fanwank" when the references outweigh the original material. In the case ot TWOK, the whole movie is essentially an original story.

'Into Darkness', despite using Khan as well as it's main villain, likewise is mostly a new and original story. The only parts where 'Into Darkness' went full fanwank was when Spock yelled "Khan", and they slavishly replayed the radiation chamber-deathscene, original dialogue included. That was fanwank, in it's purest form. It wasn't original, and it didn't even have a meaning in this context on it's own, beyond a reference to the original - while the previous parts of the movie (Khan as a terrorist) usually created their own, new content with the established characters.

Likewise, DIS isn't 'fanwank' because it has two episodes with Mudd in it, or because it has klingons or the MU. It is fanwank because it doesn't have much else beyond that to offer.

The problem, however, is if we define fanwank as being "serialization we don't like" then your opinion on whether or not something is fanwank will rest on it being good. For example, ENT Season 4 is (relatively) beloved by Trek fans compared to the remainder of the series, but essentially every mini-arc or episode either directly deals with Trek canon or makes offhanded references to it.

If you're going to make a distinction between fanwank and just general development of plotlines from other series in the Trek mythos, I think the best line to make wouldn't be if it's effective, but if it's plot critical. Hence the ENT two-parter which exists more or less to just explain away the Klingon ridge mystery cannot be fanwank, because it's intimately wrapped up in the plotline of the arc. On the other hand, the episode Observer Effect has fanwank - they make the aliens Oregonians (and reference the Cardassians) but it wasn't really needed from a story perspective. They just did it to give the canon nerds teh feels.

 

[Jinn]

I thought fanwank were fan-made explanation for problems witha show or something. So, "The Klingons in TOS aren't acutally Klingons but conquered species" is fanwank, while the Augment virus episodes from Enterprise are not fanwank, regardless of quality. I think fan-service is probably a better word for what's going on.

 

[Boomstick]

Hence the ENT two-parter which exists more or less to just explain away the Klingon ridge mystery cannot be fanwank, because it's intimately wrapped up in the plotline of the arc.

I disagree, I think this is fanwank. Anything that acquiesces to irrelevant nerd debate is fanwank to me, regardless of how successful or entertaining it is. An explanation was not really needed, and we weren't owed one. "We do not discuss it with outsiders" was enough of an explanation.

I thought fanwank were fan-made explanation for problems witha show or something. So, "The Klingons in TOS aren't acutally Klingons but conquered species" is fanwank, while the Augment virus episodes from Enterprise are not fanwank, regardless of quality. I think fan-service is probably a better word for what's going on.

What you're describing as 'Active Fanwank', which is when the 'wank' is occurring outside of the original article, the audience is creating the discussion, it's kind of like communal nerdsterbation, a dork-orgy if you will.
'Passive Fanwank' is when it occurs within the original article, so the audience is simply receiving the content of the 'wank'. It is when fan service goes to far and becomes wanky.

Basically, all you need to keep in mind is that it's a derogatory term, because if even just one person wanks into a fan, everyone's face gets sticky.

 

[Jinn]

What you're describing as 'Active Fanwank', which is when the 'wank' is occurring outside of the original article, the audience is creating the discussion, it's kind of like communal nerdsterbation, a dork-orgy if you will.
'Passive Fanwank' is when it occurs within the original article, so the audience is simply receiving the content of the 'wank'. It is when fan service goes to far and becomes wanky.

Basically, all you need to keep in mind is that it's a derogatory term, because if even just one person wanks into a fan, everyone's face gets sticky.

Uhm. I didn't know fandom was that complicated....

 

[jaime]

I thought fanwank were fan-made explanation for problems witha show or something. So, "The Klingons in TOS aren't acutally Klingons but conquered species" is fanwank, while the Augment virus episodes from Enterprise are not fanwank, regardless of quality. I think fan-service is probably a better word for what's going on.

Fan service is when you can see the lead characters underwear.

 

[eschaton]

Fan service is when you can see the lead characters underwear.

In that case, I'm 90% sure DIS had that too.

 

[Jesse1066]

they make the aliens Oregonians

What, they couldn't pump their own gas or something?

 

[Lord Garth]

As I've said elsewhere, fankwank is what's popular wtih Trek fans. Look at the movies. TMP was sort of a rehash of a TOS episode, but it didn't contain much fanwank (except for those achingly long shots of the Enterprise, which were a different kind of wanking. TWOK, in contrast, was a fanwank plot - a direct sequel to a TOS episode.

Or hell, look at the TNG-era movies. The only one which is generally considered good is First Contact, which is undoubtedly the fanwankiest of the TNG movies - if not all of the Trek movies. The plot is based upon two separate threads of fanwank: Exploration of Zephram Cochrane and humanity's first steps towards the Trek future, and Picard's personal demons from his violation by the Borg in BoBW. In contrast, the other TNG-era movies had new antagonists and new plotlines, and generally were given a tepid response.

Yup. The best TOS and TNG movies are generally considered to be The Wrath of Khan and First Contact which are respectively sequels to "Space Seed" and "The Best of Both Worlds".

What I liked best about DS9 is that it built on what was previously introduced and established. It showed that it was possible to do a Star Trek series without starting entirely from scratch at the beginning of each episode. Direct example: when Damar finally implores Cardassians everywhere at the end of "The Changing Face of Evil" to RESIST, a large part of what made it work was because of how long that moment had been built up to. We saw how Damar finally became completely fed up with the Dominion, and Weyoun in particular. It was so much more effective because it had been building up for over two years, not 45 minutes.

Some people want an anthology except with the same characters every week. I like those but I also like something builds on top of what's already there. Something that goes deeper into what's barely been touched on. And, yes, Peak TV or Prestige TV and binging was made for serialization like this.

Sure there's a lot to be critical about with Discovery. I won't deny it. But criticizing it for "fanwank" is another way of people saying they just don't want to see what was introduced previously further developed. Story structure, pacing, questioning some of the creative decisions and the decisions the characters make, I get. But fanwank? Come on. Previous series are "guilty" of the same and some have done a lot worse. So those people are like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Jinn]

Fan service is when you can see the lead characters underwear.

Spoiler

 

[mdtauk]

This is definitely true. I know it's been said a million times, but I don't at all understand why they didn't just set it after Voyager and DS9. Non-trekkies who tune in aren't going to care either way, and us dorks are only going to nitpick if you set it in between two long established shows.

Well I think we know that the plan originally, was to make it an anthology series, which would have shifted eras. So the choice of setting it pre-TOS may be a remnant. But also the story was about the Klingon War, and it is easier to tell that story in that time period, than having to handle all the canon from TNG and DS9, the Dominion War, the conflicts, the changeling infiltration etc.

With the war at a stalemate, its now a chance for the current team to tell the stories they want, and they also have the hook/tease of Spock and the fan love of TOS to dangle and play with. Now we just have to hope for the best.

 

[jaime]

In that case, I'm 90% sure DIS had that too.

Yes it did. And Klingon Waifu. DSC is a hairs breadth away from being an harem comedy about Ash and his mixed up love life. Ike Tenchi Muyo. But with guts hanging out, and shagging.