The Red Guards should have been the Knights of Ren

[WarpFactorZ]

I originally posted this in a different thread, but thought it deserved a discussion of its own. One of my (many) beefs with The Last Jedi is that Kylo Ren is portrayed as much, much, MUCH weaker in the Force than we've seen. In The Force Awakens, he was freezing people, doing deep mind probes, tossing Rey half way up a tree trunk, and stopping freakin' blaster bolts in mid air while carrying on a separate conversation.

In TLJ, he could basically push people into walls and Force choke them. But for some reason, he couldn't get out of a simple neck hold from one of Snoke's Red Guards. Given the abilities he showed in TFA, he could have easily handled ALL the guards without Rey's help. This was likely because he needed to be shown as more of an equal to Rey, which would have required her to be much stronger with the Force than previously seen. But then, both of them would have simply wiped out the guards with no drama.

The solution, I think, is the Red Guards should have been the Knights of Ren. It would have made sense that Snoke surrounded himself with the only people who could have reasonably defended him against any possible aggressors -- including (especially!) Force users. This would have been much more plausible, entertaining, and would have tied up a plot line from TFA.

Discuss!

 

[fireproof78]

No, I disagree. Kylo is weak in the force because he has doubts. Because he feels "the pull to the light" that he alludes to in TFA.

I think that if the Red Guards were the Knights of Ren they would have thrown in behind Kylo, since he is the "greatest of the knights of Ren." The idea that they are his compatriots and then would attack him could be interesting, but doesn't really follow with how Snoke seems to set things up, namely that he would not give Kylo the advantage to kill him by surrounding himself with Kylo's compatriots.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Wait, I thought they were the Knights of Ren?

(I'm only half kidding)

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So, it needed another dose of small universe syndrome? Don't think so.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

So, it needed another does of small universe syndrome? Don't think so.

What small universe? Snoke stole away Ben / Kylo Ren. It's not much of a stretch to believe that the Knights -- who were followers of Kylo -- went along for the ride.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What small universe? Snoke stole away Ben / Kylo Ren. It's not much of a stretch to believe that the Knights -- who were followers of Kylo -- went along for the ride.

The red guards worked for Snoke not Kylo Ren.

Small universe syndrome = making things that are different turn out to be intimately related if not identical, to an excessive degree. Example, the noncanonical assumption that V'ger was created by the Borg. Star Wars already has this problem in spades.

 

[fireproof78]

The red guards worked for Snoke not Kylo Ren.

This, right here. There is no indication that the Red Guards had any loyalty to Kylo.

 

[EnsignRicky]

They should have been. Having emo-boy and Mary Sue abruptly wipe out the Knights of Ren without any backstory or further development would have made perfect sense in a Rihan Johnson production.

 

[The Wormhole]

Would it matter either way? Their role in the story was just to guard Snoke until Kylo Ren killed him and he and Rey must fight and defeat the guards. Whether they were Knights of Ren or some dudes in funky red armour is in the end irrelevant, they still serve the same function in the story either way.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Exactly. They were just six disposable, toy selling automatons, defending their dead master's chopped up corpse to the bitter end for some reason. Some Protectors they turned out to be; Maybe they should have been called Praetorian Avengers. Hmm...

Then again, the needs of the story couldn't allow them to do even that much. But boy, they sure did look all spiffy and color coordinated while not doing it.

 

[fireproof78]

Would it matter either way? Their role in the story was just to guard Snoke until Kylo Ren killed him and he and Rey must fight and defeat the guards. Whether they were Knights of Ren or some dudes in funky red armour is in the end irrelevant, they still serve the same function in the story either way.

I think it matters, because the Knights of Ren are stated to be more Kylo's people. Snoke's guards are part of his overconfidence, surrounding himself with apparent toadys who wouldn't turn on him. If Kylo Ren turns on him, why would the other Knights of Ren be more loyal?

Also, unrelated note, I at least didn't have to wait until a comic to see how the Praetorians could fight unlike the Royal Guard.

 

[Prax]

They failed, and were useless. It's not like Rey and Kylo had to fight them to get to Snoke. They simply killed them off afterwards.

If they were the Knights of Ren, wouldn't they have sworn loyalty to Kylo at least after Snoke died?

The Knights of Ren don't exist.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What about the Knights of Stimpy?

 

[thribs]

I keep thing of the Knights who say Ni every time I hear them.

 

[fireproof78]

The Knights of Ren don't exist.

I'll believe that when I don't see them in Episode 9.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Anybody who goes will probably see the Knights of Ren in the next film; When they square off against the Knights of Rey.

That actually sounds like the kind of thing the writers of this crap would find oh so terribly clever.

 

[The Wormhole]

If they were the Knights of Ren, wouldn't they have sworn loyalty to Kylo at least after Snoke died?

I thought Kylo wasn't the leader of the Knights of Ren. IIRC, didn't ancillary material related to TFA say the Knights of Ren were an order where all who joined changed their name to "______ Ren"? EG, upon being admitted into the Knights of Ren, Ben Solo became Kylo Ren.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought Kylo wasn't the leader of the Knights of Ren. IIRC, didn't ancillary material related to TFA say the Knights of Ren were an order where all who joined changed their name to "______ Ren"? EG, upon being admitted into the Knights of Ren, Ben Solo became Kylo Ren.

He is referred to as "greatest of the Knights of Ren" by Snoke in TFA.

 

[The Wormhole]

Which does not necessarily mean he's the leader.

 

[fireproof78]

Which does not necessarily mean he's the leader.

Well, if Snoke was their leader, wouldn't Kylo now be their leader?