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Poll Disco v Lost in Space v Orville FIGHT

Which of these do you like? (you can pick more than one!)


  • Total voters
    128
The fuel episode had me wanting to punch someone.

I think everyone noticed that - but aside from that, the science was pretty good in principle.

The way they figured out the black hole, used pressure to escape the tar, and the general problem-solving attitude.

Note I compared it to Discovery and not to fact.
 
Charm is in short supply in genre TV these days.
You know you are right. I hadn't thought about it so bluntly before but so much characterisation is rather heavy handed. You see it in the Disney channel with our young actors striking the pose and hamming it up for forced and canned laughter. Or like with Discovery - Mudd may have been relatively okay but you could see the acting rather than just go along with the character. I enjoy The Orville but it is very self-conscious.
 
I think everyone noticed that - but aside from that, the science was pretty good in principle.

The way they figured out the black hole, used pressure to escape the tar, and the general problem-solving attitude.

Note I compared it to Discovery and not to fact.

It seems I'm more satisfied with the 1st season of Lost in Space, then Discovery. I'm really loving LIS..it's now on my must see TV list. While CBS lost me, and I've cancelled my subscription. I think overall, I'm not into the CBS reboot. I don't really care how much fan service they shove in season 2 with the TOS Enterprise 2.0. And the nostalgia uniforms and such. Season 1 alone was enough for me to walk away. Horrible writing and characterization.
 
You know you are right. I hadn't thought about it so bluntly before but so much characterisation is rather heavy handed. You see it in the Disney channel with our young actors striking the pose and hamming it up for forced and canned laughter. Or like with Discovery - Mudd may have been relatively okay but you could see the acting rather than just go along with the character. I enjoy The Orville but it is very self-conscious.

Softer, more organic acting seems to be frowned on. Directors want the characters thrust at us. Maybe they think the audience will not catch on to a more subtle form. I find it surprising because in the real world people are not typically larger than life so I'm unsure why we need it on the screen but it certainly seems to be the trend.
 
Softer, more organic acting seems to be frowned on. Directors want the characters thrust at us. Maybe they think the audience will not catch on to a more subtle form. I find it surprising because in the real world people are not typically larger than life so I'm unsure why we need it on the screen but it certainly seems to be the trend.

Modern directors, writers, and elitist snobs think the viewing populace are Rubes and idiots, so they play up stuff that they think people won't get otherwise, and dumb down storylines because they think people are morons., it's easily explained, just look at their Twitter feeds when they attack fans who don't agree with their POV. There's obvious contempt there for the fans. Its kinda sad..really..

Everyone likes to tout modern day trends, but it's evident that those trends are insulting...the industry as a whole has antipathy for their audiences.
 
Modern directors, writers, and elitist snobs think the viewing populace are Rubes and idiots, so they play up stuff that they think people won't get otherwise, and dumb down storylines because they think people are morons., it's easily explained, just look at their Twitter feeds when they attack fans who don't agree with their POV. There's obvious contempt there for the fans. Its kinda sad..really..

Everyone likes to tout modern day trends, but it's evident that those trends are insulting...the industry as a whole has antipathy for their audiences.

You are preaching to the choir. I personally find it annoying, even insulting, but just listen to some of the fans grip about actors that are more subtle in their performance. In a way we have brought it on ourselves by not defending the more organic, charismatic form.
 
I haven't finished Lost In Space yet, but I remember thinking to myself after the second or third episode something like, "Man, if you could blend the tone and approach of the new Lost In Space with the setting of The Orville, that would almost be what I wish modern Star Trek was." Not a dig on Disco as I really enjoyed the second half of it, but Lost In Space and The Orville each have something old Star Trek had, but modern Star Trek is missing.

Not to cop-out, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm taking an "all of the above" approach on the Disco vs. Lost In Space vs. The Orville thing. :)
 
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I haven't finished Lost In Space yet, but I remember thinking to myself after the second or third episode something like, "Man, if you could blend the tone and approach of the new Lost And Space with the setting of The Orville, that would almost be what I wish modern Star Trek was." Not a dig on Disco as I really enjoyed the second half of it, but Lost In Space and The Orville each have something old Star Trek had, but modern Star Trek is missing.

Not to cop-out, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm taking an "all of the above" approach on the Disco vs. Lost In Space vs. The Orville thing. :)
I can see that... Tho to be honest, I'm a HUGE Superman Fan myself, and Science fiction, so Krypton on ScyFy is hitting all the right tones for me, and my gods I am totally HOOKED!!! STD/DISCO, Orville, and LIS are all good shows to some extent, but the look and feel of modern Star Trek is just very off putting to me. Star Trek series have a format. Breaking from it is freeing and fun yes, but let's not kid ourselves here..

When you got into Star Trek, we got a specific formula that worked so well, we tuned in for numerous spin offs.. including the present one. It was the formula we loved.. Think about that. Each series had a basic formula we expected, had enjoyed and grown comfortable with, and miss it when it was gone. Like the theme song to cheers implies, the familiarity, comfort, excitement and characters of the various series, subtle acting and sometimes somber as it was, IS The reason we tuned in to the series week after week. Aspects of it in visual format only will not help if the underlying foundation is not what we want we expect and desire from the formula of the last successful TREK eras.. CBS online series is a niche thing, it's a trial balloon of sorts to see if their pay to watch content can be profitable and compete with Netflix. Everyone is getting in on that game, sure.

Yet even if I have a subscription to Netflix, and HULU, I still have my local cable access and internet package. I like watching TV still, but now I have more choices, and I can watch what's under my cable shows, and what's online when I am not able to see my must see tv series, in fact I have more new scifi shows in my playlist then I had in the hey day of SCIFI inspired shows, I am of course talking about the late 80s and early 90s of course. There's so much variety, it's nice to have the ability to pick and choose.

For me, I subscribed 1 year to CBS..Saw STD/DISCO and in the end, I found it wanting. With the images of the ENTERPRISE 1701 1.5 (Kelvin is 2.0, cause at least this one looks 75% like the original) and the return of the colored tunics, I am still not persuaded to come back to it. I just don't feel it's for me. Now, what would be really a huge hit, would show their faith in the franchise and if done in the future of the TNG universe, then they will be giving me a show I can openly embrace and feel that familiar formula with twists and turns of course, maybe a bit more edge, like Picard in First Contact and his Holographic Tomy Gun kinda rage sometimes.. its what we know, and remember, is why we fell in love the first time and everytime after.. TNG took by the middle season to embrace it over my required TOS reruns.

Bottom line, I'm gonna drop this online ver. I just hope one year soon, they decide to drop a Future Trek series upon us in TV and give it their all and best, and bring in the best. It almost feels like the wilderness years of Doctor who with the STD/DISCO series being the 1996 TV movie...
 
You are preaching to the choir. I personally find it annoying, even insulting, but just listen to some of the fans grip about actors that are more subtle in their performance. In a way we have brought it on ourselves by not defending the more organic, charismatic form.
I agree here as well. That support performance, the actor in the scene who is listening, who isn't saying anything but whose presence and reaction has meaning I often gravitate to. Like maybe in part they are us. (However I'm weird. I love background stuff. There could be this really pivotal scene in a kitchen or something and I'll be looking at the props thinking what a cool toaster or why haven't they eaten that donut yet).
 
Regarding Discovery, to paraphrase Will Riker, there's no joy in anything. Everyone's wound up so tight, that episodes like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Bride of Chaotica!" couldn't possibly exist in this universe. Why they decided to go for dark and edgy, who knows. What audience is that for? It seems as if they were trying to get the Game of Thrones crowd, but I doubt they'd take the time to watch a Star Trek series. :shrug:
 
You know you are right. I hadn't thought about it so bluntly before but so much characterisation is rather heavy handed. You see it in the Disney channel with our young actors striking the pose and hamming it up for forced and canned laughter.
Softer, more organic acting seems to be frowned on. Directors want the characters thrust at us. Maybe they think the audience will not catch on to a more subtle form.
I think the lack of subtlety in acting may have more to do with the shows the two of you been watching. The Disney channel? All of those shows are written and performed for young children, pre-teens, and teenagers. None of the shows I watch feature over the top performances generally speaking. I'd suggest looking for shows that feature less acting bombast. There are PLENTY of shows, sci fi and otherwise, that feature subtlety performances.
When you got into Star Trek, we got a specific formula that worked so well, we tuned in for numerous spin offs.. including the present one. It was the formula we loved.. Think about that. Each series had a basic formula we expected, had enjoyed and grown comfortable with, and miss it when it was gone.
Regarding Discovery, to paraphrase Will Riker, there's no joy in anything. Everyone's wound up so tight, that episodes like "The Trouble with Tribbles" or "Bride of Chaotica!" couldn't possibly exist in this universe.
As I have written in this forum before, the franchise is moving forward, not backward, and in that regard it is naturally going to leave some fans behind. There are many who are quite pleased with the direction of the franchise.

I suggest The Orville.
 
I think the lack of subtlety in acting may have more to do with the shows the two of you been watching. The Disney channel? All of those shows are written and performed for young children, pre-teens, and teenagers. None of the shows I watch feature over the top performances generally speaking. I'd suggest looking for shows that feature less acting bombast. There are PLENTY of shows, sci fi and otherwise, that feature subtlety performances.

Actually I don't get the Disney channel. I don't think we even get that up here but even if we did I would not watch it. My kids are now adults and watching any child to teenage drama is definitely not up my alley. I watched enough as my kids were growing up. Lol
 
I think the lack of subtlety in acting may have more to do with the shows the two of you been watching. The Disney channel? All of those shows are written and performed for young children, pre-teens, and teenagers. None of the shows I watch feature over the top performances generally speaking. I'd suggest looking for shows that feature less acting bombast. There are PLENTY of shows, sci fi and otherwise, that feature subtlety performances.


As I have written in this forum before, the franchise is moving forward, not backward, and in that regard it is naturally going to leave some fans behind. There are many who are quite pleased with the direction of the franchise.

I suggest The Orville.

Why yes! You are correct. The Orville is a great alternative to STD.
 
As I have written in this forum before, the franchise is moving forward, not backward, and in that regard it is naturally going to leave some fans behind. There are many who are quite pleased with the direction of the franchise.

I'm sorry, but this argument basically boils down to "DIS should be dark and edgy because it's fashionable." It's not really moving "forward" except in the most broad sense, because it's almost certain that given another few decades taste in media will move away from this paradigm.

Honestly, was the somewhat upbeat tone of Trek in the past really "of its time?" I wasn't around for the first run of TOS, but I thought it stood apart from the pack back in the 60s? Certainly the TNG was like nothing else on TV at the time - hence the frustration of the writers that they weren't allowed to script conflict between the characters (which was the norm on other drama - even if they weren't as "dark 'n edgy" as today).
 
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I don't find Discovery dark and edgy. I find it bland and timid. The word "fuck" and a fake tit aren't dark and edgy. They haven't been dark and edgy for twenty-plus years.

Altered Carbon, Westworld, The Handmaid's Tale are dark and edgy. I'm not even sure Discovery is dark and edgy in comparison to something like Mad Men.
 
I'm sorry, but this argument basically boils down to "DIS should be dark and edgy because it's fashionable." It's not really moving "forward" except in the most broad sense, because it's almost certain that given another few decades taste in media will move away from this paradigm.

Honestly, was the somewhat upbeat tone of Trek in the past really "of its time?" I wasn't around for the first run of TOS, but I thought it stood apart from the pack back in the 60s? Certainly the TNG was like nothing else on TV at the time - hence the frustration of the writers that they weren't allowed to script conflict between the characters (which was the norm on other drama - even if they weren't as "dark 'n edgy" as today.

TOS feels like a '60s show. I've seen enough shows made in the '60s to be able to tell. For every Lost In Space there was a Twilight Zone. For every Gilligan's Island there was a Dick Van Dyke. For every Batman there was a Green Hornet. You get the idea. It was a diverse time and Star Trek had the diversity in its writing style to accommodate it. But it feels like a show of its time.

TNG feels very much like a late-'80s/early-'90s show. It was a happy living room show with some seriousness to it.

DS9, in the '90s, was promoted as being "darker and grittier". Was it trying to be fashionable? I don't know, but you seem to like it. Though, if anything, with the war setting, it seems like later-DS9 would've fit the '00s better.

VOY also feels like a '90s show. The techy plots reflect the tech boom. Sci-Fi shows were a dime-a-dozen at this point. It felt like it fit.

At the time I thought ENT needed to change. Farscape and Battlestar Galactica were leading the pack and Enterprise looked stale. But, even with that, I could tell ENT was made in the '00s and especially with Season 3 and the finale of Season 2. With the Xindi Arc, ENT was the most '00s it would ever get.

When I watch DSC, it feels like a show made in the '10s. You can question the quality of it. But from the serialized nature, the "every season is a chapter" narrative, and the compromised lead characters -- Lorca, obviously, and Burnham being a mutineer -- it feels like a show made today.

And, how do I put this? Whether or not the times we're living in are great depend on which side of the political spectrum you're on. I don't think things are particularly great. And trying to see eye-to-eye with people you disagree with seems to be impossible most of the time, no matter what your intentions. Sounds a lot like Burnham vs. Georgiou in the pilot and then the Shenzou vs. the Klingons. Conflict was unavoidable no matter anyone's best intentions because no side could get on the same page. Even within the same side. Or seeing eye-to-eye conflicts with your agenda, so you can't no matter what. It would destroy the narrative you're trying to create. Such as in T'Kuvma's case. And a lot of cases in Real Life.

One last thing. I think it's funny that some people complain about there being no levity in DSC whatsoever, yet once there is levity, in The Mirror Universe, suddenly these same people are like, "The Mirror Universe! We can't have that! It's too ridiculous!" It's levity, it's a break from the Klingon War... but it seems like some people are determined to automatically assume the opposite position of whatever the series is doing at the moment, no matter what. "Will You Take My Hand?" and "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" also have levity and humor, as do Tilly and high on spores Stamets. But all of that depends on the sense of humor you have.
 
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I don't find Discovery dark and edgy. I find it bland and timid. The word "fuck" and a fake tit aren't dark and edgy. They haven't been dark and edgy for twenty-plus years.

Altered Carbon, Westworld, The Handmaid's Tale are dark and edgy. I'm not even sure Discovery is dark and edgy in comparison to something like Mad Men.

There is no denying DIS is at least a lot less illuminated than previous Trek shows. And IMO the new, more angular brutalistic design direction of the ships and sets can be described as more "edgy" as well! :lol:
 
I don't find Discovery dark and edgy. I find it bland and timid. The word "fuck" and a fake tit aren't dark and edgy. They haven't been dark and edgy for twenty-plus years.

Altered Carbon, Westworld, The Handmaid's Tale are dark and edgy. I'm not even sure Discovery is dark and edgy in comparison to something like Mad Men.

To be clear, I wasn't so much saying that DIS was dark and edgy, as I was saying that arguing that it should be to be more contemporary is shallow. A story should have whatever tone it needs in order to tell the tale properly, regardless of current fashion.

In DIS, I think Act 1 is fairly grimdark - particularly Context is for Kings. Act 2 was basically comic-book schlock, and not really that grimdark because of how camp it was. In general, the "grimdark" element of the show is more the lighting than the characters or stories.

Edit: I don't really understand why grimdark is suddenly so much more popular - something that happened well before the last presidential election. The world is generally speaking a better place than a few decades ago, with lower crime and little risk of nuclear holocaust. Yet pessimistic stories where civilization collapses are all the rage. Why?
 
To be clear, I wasn't so much saying that DIS was dark and edgy, as I was saying that arguing that it should be to be more contemporary is shallow. A story should have whatever tone it needs in order to tell the tale properly, regardless of current fashion.

In DIS, I think Act 1 is fairly grimdark - particularly Context is for Kings. Act 2 was basically comic-book schlock, and not really that grimdark because of how camp it was. In general, the "grimdark" element of the show is more the lighting than the characters or stories.

Fair enough.

Edit: I don't really understand why grimdark is suddenly so much more popular - something that happened well before the last presidential election. The world is generally speaking a better place than a few decades ago, with lower crime and little risk of nuclear holocaust. Yet pessimistic stories where civilization collapses are all the rage. Why?

If I had to pin it down, I think it was somewhere around 2000. I don't really have an answer. I think -- and this is very general -- it might be a matter of the 21st Century not being this great time we all thought it would be. We were promised wonder and spectacle when it came to "The Year Two-Thousand!!!" We were "Building a Bridge to the 21st Century!" Then it wasn't The Year Two-Thousand. It was Nineteen Ninety-Ten.

If we don't take care of the problems that face us -- and take them seriously -- then I don't think the 21st Century, as a whole, will be particularly pleasant. Certainly not for us when we're old and definitely not for the generations after us. Maybe it's fear about where everything is going to go.
 
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