How about the book? My math teacher in the 11th grade recommended it to me... 22 years later, I still haven't gotten around to reading it yet!
And it would take less time to read than it would to see the movies.
It seems there is a reason for the visual reboot and the producers aren't being honest about it.
- Thread starter Smoked Salmon
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Mm-hm. And the reason the bombers themselves started to drift "down" and "sink" in space after they were damaged?...
Star Wars physics doesn't exactly follow real world physics 100%. But neither does Star Trek physics, either.
To be honest: What was lost, will be lost forever. The novelty feel of any movie is very particular to the era it was made in, as well as technical advancements, effects etc. "Titanic" for the youths of today is just a long romance/adventure movie that everyone has seen somehow. They don't know how spectacular the mixture of state-of-the-art visual effects and James Cameron's direction at his peak was. What remains is some nice real-life submarine footage from the original Titanic, a very faithfull recreation of the ship, and a love-story that is extremely clichéd.
The same way, what made the Star Wars movies (or Star Trek series) soooo special at their times simply cannot be recreated. But they remain what they are - which is still entertaining.
In this regard, Star Trek actually got the better end of the stick - Star Wars IS narratively broken at this point as you said: Storywise and characterwise, the entire original trilogy has been invalidated, and all characters died having lived a meaningless life, having lost everything, and being essentially reset at their pre-New Hope/post-Revenge of Sith status. That is sad. But that's only the story - the novelty of the OT would have vanished nonetheless.
Star Trek has it better. DIS may be a dissapointment, underperforming expectations, and being in contradiction with TOS a lot of times. But Star Trek has the unique ability to just move on: The next series can simply be a regular part of "our" Trek universe again. Hell, Discovery can recover and become that, with just minimal effort!
The only thing that would probably break the Star Trek universe would be if some numbnut Hollywood executive finally decides to do that god-awful "Fall of the Federation"-concept, or if the Prime/Kelvin timeline seperation will continue on post the Pine/Quinto movies. Until then, Star Trek is a universe, essentially a sandbox, where you can do everything. And it usually has treated it's characters very graceful. Even Kirks death in "Generations" looks quaint compared to what happened in Star Wars. Star Wars OTOH is a singular story. You fuck that up - which they did - and your one story is ruined. Despite Star Wars being more financially successfull right now, IMO Star Trek still is in a much better shape. At least narratively.
Well that's not exclusive to the bombers, to that movie, to Star Wars, or to sci-fi. The spaceship = sea ship analogy is frequently taken too far.
Hence my comment:
I can think of several ways to fuck up Trek irrevocably:
1. Bring in actual gods and magic into it (I'm really scared this is where the spore crap will go next season).
2. Openly say that large portions of established canon were holodeck simulations.
3. Establish Section 31 has always been in total control of the Federation and they've been using mind-control drugs on the public or something (e.g., it was all a dream, and people can "wake up" ala Matrix and see the world as it really is).
4. Also riffing on The Matrix, establish that super-intelligent AI have always really been in charge of the Federation, and are basically just giving humanoid life busy work to keep them entertained. This could actually be more IRL plausible than Trek as it is depicted, but would still destroy the franchise.
Too late - TOS already showed 'god' beings: Gary Mitchel in TOS - "Where No Man Has Gone Before"; the "Thesians" of TOS - "Charlie X"; and "Squire Trelaine's parents in TOS - "The Squire of Gothos"; we saw the actual being/ god know as "Apollo" in TOS - "Who Mourns For Adonais" (and there are still more examples.
TNG brought us "Q" and the "Q Continuum".
DS9 gave us the Bajoran "Prophets" and "Pah Wraiths" (aka "Wormhole Aliens")
If you're worried about "gods and magic" in Star trek - it's already "Been there, done that..." 50 years ago.
Of course there have been many individual cases of godlike aliens in Trek canon. Gene Roddenberry loved these sorts of stories (which is why Q came into being - he still had big pull at the beginning of TNG, and wanted to fall back on an old TOS saw.
However, very advanced energy beings with skills that seem "magical" to us are still not gods. And Spock's katra residing in McCoy is still not a soul. There is a decided difference between discussing these things within Trek's fundamentally materialist/skeptical framework and presenting them as supernatural elements.
Funnily enough, the DS9/ ST: Section 31 novel Control combines elements from both these points...
Bottom line being, Human societies eventually succumb to their baser instincts without some surreptitious nudging in the right direction.
The absolute last thing I want is Trek to be more like comics...ech.
I was thinking after Avengers if a Trek crew could be turned into superheroes to boost revenue.
Yep, Apollo was an "actual god."
Also, I would say that Christ at least arguably qualifies as both "actual god" and a figure who evidently existed on 892-IV in "Bread and Circuses."
Wasn't that Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda?
Every other franchise does just fine with concurrent alternate incarnations, I don't see why Trek can't cope with the same.
Wasn't that Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda?
Possibly why he said the concept is "god-awful"?
Apollo was not an actual god. When the Enterprise phasered his temple/technology, he lost his power. The same happened with Trelane, in TOS' "The Squire of Gothos." The Q are no different, per VOY's "Deathwish."
Re the Trek crew being like comics, I actually think they could be a lot more comic-y and still be okay. I could see an X-Men/Avengers-like Federation strike unit, with a Betazoid telepath, a superstrong Vulcan, amphibious Benzite, and flying Aurellian, and you could make them relentless Jedi/Bond-like experts really causing Hell for whatever enemy. It would be good to showcase the strength of the good guys, instead of making them weak underdogs before a magically superior enemy -- I'm looking at you, Reman. We have as much to fear from misusing our own power as we do from attack from others.
Re the Trek crew being like comics, I actually think they could be a lot more comic-y and still be okay. I could see an X-Men/Avengers-like Federation strike unit, with a Betazoid telepath, a superstrong Vulcan, amphibious Benzite, and flying Aurellian, and you could make them relentless Jedi/Bond-like experts really causing Hell for whatever enemy. It would be good to showcase the strength of the good guys, instead of making them weak underdogs before a magically superior enemy -- I'm looking at you, Reman. We have as much to fear from misusing our own power as we do from attack from others.
A being of vast power who requires worshipers? Seems like a god to me.
Apollo was also the actual being in history who was worshiped as a deity, who was literally referred to by people in history as a deity and who is still presently referred to by people in the real world as a mythological deity. It doesn't get much more "actual god" than that.
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