Klingons have changed exactly once before in all of Trek history. And that change bugged people for twenty-six years, generating no end of speculation and non-canonical stories, until it was finally explained. Why revisit something that caused so much frustration the last time around?
Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?
- Thread starter Annorax849
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And in the end the market will rule. If they stray too far from what Trekkies want to see the numbers will take a hit and the show will either be retooled to appeal to what they believe is what the audience does prefer to see or it'll be cancelled. But they have no surface obligation to give us what we want. Just saying "I paid for your art and I didn't get what I want" doesn't entail the artist changing how they create their art. If their bottom line gets hit they'll change, but not until.
Once? TMP certainly doesn't look like SFS, and there is a variety in TUC. Even Worf's forehead changed a couple of times.
Also, we never got a uniform explanation in TMP. Still waiting on that one. And the TWOK one.
There's minor variation among Klingons after 1979, yes, but nothing any more radical than cosmetic differences you see among actual humans. To take two of the more extreme examples, I have no problem looking at General Chang from STVI and Chancellor Martok from DS9 and saying "yes, these people belong to the same species."
By way of contrast, the change in TMP clearly made them look like a different species. So did the change in DSC.
(By way of a different contrast, take the change DSC made to the look of Andorians. It's there, but it's subtle, and I really don't mind it at all. They're still recognizable. Nothing about the Klingon redesign was the least bit subtle.)
By way of contrast, the change in TMP clearly made them look like a different species. So did the change in DSC.
(By way of a different contrast, take the change DSC made to the look of Andorians. It's there, but it's subtle, and I really don't mind it at all. They're still recognizable. Nothing about the Klingon redesign was the least bit subtle.)
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And, as odd as I sound, I have no problem looking at Martok, Chang, T'Kumva, Koloth and the like see them belonging to the same species, or under the same Empire.
As I've stated before, there are reasons why, and they work for me. Call it head canon, or rationalization, or low standards, or whatever, but it works for me. Maybe some day it won't and it will change. That's how I interact with art.
I have to say that reflects my reaction.
I misspoke, it's more the demands of the market, which is the wider viewing audience. The only shows sticking to episodic now are sitcoms and a few network shows.
Yet you think all the fans feel exactly like you. I'm a fan and love Trek just as much as you do and I don't feel the same way.
It's more recognizable. A general audience thinks Star Trek is Kirk and Spock. This is marketing itself as being close to Kirk and Spock with Spock's secret sister. They probably hope to attack new fans with this.
That's your own speculation since we don't know the numbers. CBS seems happy with it and as long as they're happy it will continue.
It was better than shlock until season three. The look is in line with the scifi of the era, it wasn't as silly. It's probably has more in common with the better scifi of the 50s like Twilight Zone or Forbidden Planet since Lost in Space was written for children.
I can't see them as the same species. They have four nostrils, for heaven's sake, and hairless egg-shaped heads.
I could see them as a different species within the same Empire, or as the result of deliberate morphological modification (perhaps attempting to reverse the effects of the Augment virus), both of which are speculative answers that fans around here have posted. Either one of those explanations would be perfectly plausible. All the show would have had to do is show some of the familiar sorts of Klingons, even in the background. As I've mentioned before, doing that would have actually reinforced the backstory about division among different factions in the Empire. Why it didn't do that, I can't imagine.
I could see them as a different species within the same Empire, or as the result of deliberate morphological modification (perhaps attempting to reverse the effects of the Augment virus), both of which are speculative answers that fans around here have posted. Either one of those explanations would be perfectly plausible. All the show would have had to do is show some of the familiar sorts of Klingons, even in the background. As I've mentioned before, doing that would have actually reinforced the backstory about division among different factions in the Empire. Why it didn't do that, I can't imagine.
No one cares why the Andorians look so dramatically different over the years or how the Romulans suddenly gained ridges. Trills went from having goofy foreheads to spots because the spots looked better.
That's just a matter of the storytelling style. I haven't noticed anyone complaining about the fact that the plot is serialized. That's not what we're talking about here.
No, I don't. I have repeatedly and explicitly qualified my opinions as being my own, and haven't attempted to bolster them by appealing to the authority of hypothetical mass audiences.
I'm not talking about the numbers. I have no clue how DSC is doing commercially. I'm saying it's failing at living up to the artistic standards of "prestige TV," which is what you said the producers were aspiring to, as exemplified by the shows you mentioned. I merely added another show as an example.
(BTW, as much of a Doctor Who fan as I am, it struck me as odd to see that listed as an example of "prestige TV." Do you really think of it in that category?)
As I literally just mentioned, changes to the Andorians have been much more subtle, in DSC and earlier. The Trill were changed after exactly one appearance, which obviously sets them apart from the Klingons. And as for the Romulans, in point of fact it has always bothered me that TNG added ridges to their foreheads, and I've seen other fans write about the same issue... not just because of the cosmetic difference from TOS but because it made not a lick of sense in-story, as they're just a few thousand years separated from Vulcan stock and couldn't possibly have evolved such a feature in the time available, and were clearly meant to be so similar that an actual ridgeless Vulcan like Spock could walk among them without arousing suspicion. So arguing that "no one cares" would be clearly wrong, even if weren't another appeal to anonymous mass opinion, as we were just discussing.
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It's was kind of unnecessary really to go out on such a limb with the Klingon 'design' being so different. Yet when it came to Vulcans they faithfully not only had a consistency but modelled Sarek with a lookalike. I guess they felt they owed it to the character Michael and to Spock to go old school.
Cocaine?
I've seen some get upset that the show didn't answer questions immediately, which is a part of serialized television. They can't tell you what's in the mystery box or you might not come back next week.
I don't think it makes it better, it's just why it's being done that way and why it won't change. We're just the built-in audience and they want more since they know we'll watch it whether we like it or not. I doubt they care some fans don't like it, some fans didn't like Enterprise and they stuck with that sinking ship for 4 years.
I don't think it's the best scifi show on right now. But it entertains me and keeps me wanting more. No one sets up to make an okay show, some just end up there. That said, Discovery at least had a fairly strong first season. TNG can't say that, it's first season was rough. That's why I try to give a show's first season some slack, they need to find themselves. If the show can improve on its strengths and have more episodes like the time loop episode, which was wonderful because it let the crew relax and get to know each other, I think it can be one of the best Trek series one day. There's a very good show there, they just need to refine it.
There's not a lot of current prestige scifi and I didn't want to use Walking Dead. Lost or BSG might have been a better example, but they've been off for nearly a decade.
That's because we're supposed to relate to Vulcans more, plus Vulcans just look like humans with pointy ears. That's it.
Klingons have bumpy heads, so they gave them bumpy heads and pushed for a more alien design since we're supposed to see them as bad guys. Bad guys always look more alien and the good guy aliens, like Bajorans.
The forehead is the exact same shape as the mountain of powder that helped Roddenberry write the script.
On the one hand, that's perfectly fair. For all its faults, DSC still had arguably the best first season of any Trek show other than TOS itself. Trek shows just seem to take a while to find their footing. And for all my complaints and concerns, I'll still be watching the second season, trying to be cautiously optimistic.
On the other hand, there's no reason to expect most viewers to be quite that fair, and to give it such a long leash. This isn't just the era of prestige TV, after all, it's also the era of peak TV. There are literally five hundred scripted shows out there to compete with, and a lot of them are very good, and people have only got so much viewing time to go around. Even professional TV critics can't keep up with everything they want to watch.
(And that competition definitely extends to the SF genre. I'm surprised you had trouble thinking of other examples... besides Counterpart, The Expanse and Westworld and Handmaid's Tale and Altered Carbon and Stranger Things and Sense8 and The Man in the High Castle and quite a few others spring readily to mind.)
Those are good examples, to be honest I'm barely putting any effort into this because I'm watching TV.
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In Thy Nostril.
Prior to the Capaldi era, Doctor Who was averaging about 7 or 8 million viewers, which is equivalent to the major soap operas - to coin a phrase, its kind of a big deal.
Could you be any more wrong? Like wow
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